malted vs torrified wheat

[matt_wolf]

can anyone explain the difference between malted and torrified wheat?

[Richard]

Torrified is not malted - in that it has no diastatic (starch->sugar conversion) power. Malted wheat is malted, so its enzymes are available in the mash to perform conversion.

From a recipe perspective, torrified and flaked, unmalted wheat are somewhat interchangeable. The torrified form is just more readily accessible in the mash due to the heat treatment it undergoes, so you might get a wee bit better utilisation with that stuff versus unmalted flaked. The heat treatment will no doubt impart some flavour differences at high % of the recipe, but for most recipes I've seen the volumes are so small as to be 100% substitutable between torrified and unmalted flaked wheat. I would suspect that if the flaked were toasted, they'd be basically identical from a recipe POV.

Hope that helps

[Chris Craig]

Torrified wheat and flaked wheat are used to give body and head retention.  Malted what is a base grain.

[matt_wolf]

So if I try to decifer the brewer's log for Dark sand Stormy Night, would you really suggest 40% torrified? Seems like a lot if it's for body and head retention.

[Chris Craig]

Yeah that sounds ok.  The only thing is that you'll have to make sure you have enough base grain in there so that there are enough enzymes to convert the unmalted wheat.  

If you're using 40% torrified wheat, you'll be OK as long as about 20% of your recipe is a base grain like 2-row, maris otter, munich, or vienna.  Those have about 3 times the enzymes needed to convert their own starches, so the leftover will convert the torrified wheat.

[Richard]

With the recipe you posted, you're talking equal parts diastatic and not - which is absolutely fine.

[matt_wolf]

Thanks Guys- appreciate the clarification.

Will be the first brewday with my fostered electric setup  

[fakr]

Guys, I always use "torrified" and "toasted" synonymously when referring to grain as they are the same thing according to big grain companies like Gilbertson & Page.
Regardless, "torrified" or "toasted" grains are not malted, like stated above.

by the way, I have a good 40lbs of toasted barley...tastes great in bitters, pale ales and IPAs.

[Chris Craig]

From G&P:

OiO  Toasted (Torrified) Wheat (1.0 Lov)
This is our signature OiO product. It is used widely across across North America. A whole kernel version of our popular wheat flakes. This is a whole kernel grain and will require milling.

[Richard]

Yeah I saw that, torrified is toasted, but afaik they're not flaked. End result is pretty much the same, but how they get there is different. My understanding is that torrified wheat is steamed/heated loose until it puffs up and becomes gelatinised, and the toasted flaked stuff is just rolled through hot wheels to gelatinise.

I would suspect that if the flaked were toasted, they'd be basically identical from a recipe POV.

fwiw looking for a source on this just showed me that nobody agrees on the definition

This reminds me of the Crystal vs Caramel conversations.

[matt_wolf]

tha's what I kept running up against as well- glad to hear I'm not totally out to lunch- about this anyway!