Ringwood woes...

[fakr]

Hey guys,

Looking for a little info on your experiences with Ringwood yeast.  My first experience so far has been less than favorable...but maybe I'm just not being patient.

Brewed a 12GAL batch of a picaroons best bitter clone on Sat Jan 14th, and pitched 2 packs of wyeast Ringwood at 8pm with wort at 23 degrees.  The yeast was only 2 weeks old, yet the packs never did swell, even after being smacked and let to sit for 4 hours @ 25degrees.  I read online this shouldn't matter....previous wyeast smack packs of other yeast swell so much you think they are going to blow.
Brix reading showed 12P.

No fermentation action whatsoever until tues Jan 17th when a frothy head began to form.  Fermentation room has been a contstant 19 degrees, and the wort has remained at a constant 21 degrees which would lead me to believe that fermentation has been happening.
Every refractometer reading has shown a contstant 12P.  I can smell that fermentation is happening, and each sample is very cloudy and smells like fermentation, but my brix readings haven't changed....I'm assuming this is because of the sedament in the captured liquid.

Today, I finally saw a change in the brix readin from 12 to 10.5, which is very small considering I pitched 6 days ago....

I do plan to leave this batch in the primary for 2 weeks, but I'm wondering at what point do I give up on the ringwood and repitch with another yeast....I'm also wondering if repitching after 7-10 days is even advisable...

I had high hopes for this ringwood, but its thoroughly disappointing me at this point.

Anyone have similar issues with ringwood?  Anyone have success with it?  I'm wondering if the packs I have might have froze in transit?  I have two packs of wyeast 1056 that I got in the same order, and they are slowly swelling on their own in the fridge so I'm thinking the ringwood didn't freeze...

[Ian Grant]

Don't worry it's working.  Did you use the formula when doing your brix reading.   When alcohol is present the refractometer has a higher reading.  Also don't rush to keg it unless you don't mind some diacetyl.  I've done 2 brews and they turned out good.  I never got the picaroons taste and I talked to Esty from picaroons and he said it takes about 10 batches reusing the same yeast to start getting a similar flavor.

[Ian Grant]

My smack pack never swelled up either

[fakr]

Thanks Ian.   I'm starting to feel better now.

I am using the brix calculator yes.

Do you remember how long it took for fermentation to complete with your batches?

[Richard]

Ian: did Esty give any indication as to why it would take so long? Presumably the ringwood strain you get from wyeast isn't quite the same until it's adapted a little?

[Ian Grant]

Well it might take us even longer because it's not open to air.   The yeast their using is the same yeast from day one, and it's open fermentation.  The only yeast they don't harvest is from their higher gravity beers probably like most breweries.   I'm thinking about trying an open fermentation durning the highest activity for a couple days.  Don't want to risk completely ruining the batch.  

Fakr:   How long was u gonna ferment it for?? I did mine for 2 weeks I believe.  Increase the temp a bit at the end for a couple days or add another week.  I also pitched mine from a starter too.  When I made the starter it took a couple days to show also but it took off fast when in the wort.

This was from my phone while at work with people yelling at each other so if it doesn't make sense or  shit spelled wrong that's my excuss.    

[Ian Grant]

I would like to do a group experiment.  To do 10+ brews to maybe achieve the flavor  of picaroons  for me would take awhile.  Why don't we share the washed yeast and hopefully achieve it alot faster.

[Kyle]

has anyone tried to culture the yeast from a Pics bottle? I know its filtered, but maybe there is still a trace of yeast in there.

[Chris Craig]

I would like to do a group experiment.  To do 10+ brews to maybe achieve the flavor  of picaroons  for me would take awhile.  Why don't we share the washed yeast and hopefully achieve it alot faster.

I'd be up for that Ian.

[Kyle]

I got a bottle of Pics Best Bitter. I'll add some sterile wort from my next brewday and see if I can coax out any yeast that may still be hiding in there.

[Ian Grant]

I'm brewing Monday with ringwood so we can start then.   For the ones that want to try the experiment don't brew big beers try to keep the OG no higher than 1.060.

[Richard]

My annoying science-brain is kicking in here...

... The 10-uses thing has to be a generational thing, so you can split it as much as you like but it's going to take the same amount of time to reach 10 uses 'cause the critical path doesn't change with the size of the generations.

However if you just mean that you don't want to brew 10 batches in a row with Ringwood then yeah, it makes sense to split up the effort

[Ian Grant]

My annoying science-brain is kicking in here...

... The 10-uses thing has to be a generational thing, so you can split it as much as you like but it's going to take the same amount of time to reach 10 uses 'cause the critical path doesn't change with the size of the generations.

However if you just mean that you don't want to brew 10 batches in a row with Ringwood then yeah, it makes sense to split up the effort

Well for me to brew and the drink 10 batches it'll take me over a year...  So a group thing  would make it faster.

[Richard]

Gotcha. Count me in.

Can I suggest those involved decide on a particular recipe and stick with it? I've heard good things about your Bitter, Ian.

[Ian Grant]

Gotcha. Count me in.

Can I suggest those involved decide on a particular recipe and stick with it? I've heard good things about your Bitter, Ian.

It was Thomas's recipe i just scaled the amber malt down and change the hops based on what i had.