Re: American Stout :: Sierra Nevada Stout Clone

Jake · October 18, 2011, 10:20:16 AM

No you don't need 2 boil pots. I drain my first runnings into a bucket, drain my sparge water immediately after into the mash tun from the brew kettle on the stove, then dump the bucket of first runnings back into the pot, and then drain the sparge into the bucket, dumping the bucket into the boil pot on the stove which would already be heating up for 20ish mins

Simple as that

DandyMason · October 18, 2011, 10:27:49 AM

True enough... If a bucket works, I will use a bucket..

Richard · October 18, 2011, 01:28:56 PM

Jake: You leave the boil pot dry on the stove for 20 mins? I figure you might get some caramelisation that way, but then I've seen people drop hot rocks into wort to get it to a boil so it's no doubt a valid technique. I may of course be misunderstanding what you're saying.

Everyone has their variations on technique, not everything is a case of right and wrong.

Moreover I did a little looking around and regarding the 3 possibilities I mentioned, I'm pretty sure it's a case of measurement error. Mash temp should not affect OG - however, sparge temp will.

I am thinking once again, that issues like this should be canonised into the wiki (it's still there) - it is rather confusing to newcomers to have to sift through these conversations for the salient, correct information.

Exec: we should discuss a process for canonisation, which of course should include fact-checking and a decent editorial process.

Jake · October 18, 2011, 01:47:55 PM

I'll take the pot off the burner until the first runnings are in the pot, then I'll put it back on the heat. I never leave the pot on the heat when empty. Accidentally made the mistake once and I smelled like my house was on fire.

For my sparge temp, I'll ususally bring the water up to between 182-184 to achieve the 168 range when I have 8-10 pounds of grain, and I'll bring it up to about 186-188 when I'm using more grain. This is assuming I'm mashing in the low to mid 150's and ssuming my mash ratio is around 1.25-1.33 qts/lb. Not a very scientific approach to doing it, but seems to get me in the 166-169 range everytime.

On another note, my last batch I double crushed the grain through my mill and my efficiency improved nicely ... around 10%ish. Another thing, I read that when you're grinding the grain with a power-drill, not to go full throttle. I guess it doesn't do quite as good of a job crushing the grain, so you should just go around half speed ... not sure why this is off the top of my head; has anyone ever heard this?

Richard · October 18, 2011, 01:56:09 PM

Quote from: "Jake Saunders"I'll take the pot off the burner until the first runnings are in the pot, then I'll put it back on the heat. I never leave the pot on the heat when empty.

Yeah I misunderstood what you said then; I did think it was a little odd...

... Regarding the temperatures; as I said to Duncan the other day - the equations are nice for a starting point, but you must learn your system. With a few degrees either way being the difference between a low and medium bodied beer, knowing your system can be the difference between good and excellent beer.

Jake · October 18, 2011, 02:09:12 PM

regarding the sparge, do you always try to hit 168-170? That's what I've read and what I've been striving for. I know above that you'll get the bitter tannins and below that just isn't as efficient (from what I understand).

Low and medium bodied beer. wouldn't this be determinded primarily by your mash temps, not so much the sparge? That's speaking generally, because I'm sure (for some scientific reason) the sparge temp is important also, but wouldn't the mash contribute to 90% of the body of the beer. This would be assuming you can hit a sparge temp between 160-170, which I'm sure just about everyone in this group could do consistently.

Richard · October 18, 2011, 02:27:09 PM

Yeah I shoot for 170, and right now with the temperature at about 16F ambient and a standard 1.25 ratio I need about 187F to bring up a 152F mash to 170F.

The sparge is to extract remaining sugars, not to continue enzymatic activity. 170F should fairly rapidly denature the remaining alpha-amylase enzymes.

Interestingly, I read yesterday (here: http://technocosm.org/brew/brewout-pt2.html) that beta-amylase denatures (i.e. goes "dead") after 40-60 minutes at standard mashing temperatures (149F is cited). Alpha amylase is likewise dead after two hours at a slightly higher temperature (153F). As a side-note (slightly OT) this would definitely suggest that the "all night" mashing technique is pointless (although I don't know anyone round here who does that). It would also suggest however that the first runnings sitting in the boil tun will only be "under the influence" of alpha-amylase.

Apologies if I'm geeking out again; I am going to try to write a more abridged, pragmatic, non-geeked-out version of mashing parameters into the wiki once I've had time to digest enough of this stuff and verify the information.

Dean · October 18, 2011, 02:48:05 PM

Quote from: "Richard"I am going to try to write a more abridged, pragmatic, non-geeked-out version of....

My five bucks says you can't

Jake · October 18, 2011, 02:48:58 PM

Here's my approach. Mash at 149 for dry thin beer, 154 for medium bodied beer, and 158 for full bodied beer. Aim to sparge at 168-170 ... I've sparged at 160 with no perceived flaws.

Mash temp calculators are easy to come by online, but have struggled to find a sparge temp calculator (not even sure if they exist). I'll heat my sparge water between 182 -188, depending on the amount of grain I use and mash ratio (which, for me is almost always 1.33). These rules hold true for me on 95% of the batches I'd be making ... haven't tried anything but this at this point.

Can't get any easier that that I don't think

Jake · October 18, 2011, 02:49:18 PM

I'll match that 5

Richard · October 18, 2011, 02:52:17 PM

Deal... but it may be a while coming

Dean · October 18, 2011, 03:15:20 PM

Quote from: "Richard"Deal... but it may be a while coming

the more abridged pragmatic, non-geeked-out version, or the $5 (edit: $10)?

fakr · October 19, 2011, 10:51:12 AM

I had read some time ago that the optimal grain mill roller speed is 400rpm, which can be challenging for homebrewers.
Too slow a crush produces a more coarse crushed grain, and too fast produces too fine a chrush grain.

Ah, found the article:

http://www.byo.com/stories/techniques/a ... techniques

I was actually thinking of hitting up princess auto for a cheap electric motor and a couple of pullies to power my grain mill and aim for as close to 400rpm as possible.

Richard · October 19, 2011, 11:23:07 AM

"(Their average speed is 400 RPM, for the optimal 9.8 inch (250 mm) diameter rollers)."

The malt-mills we have are certainly not 9.8-inch diameter rollers; more like 1.5 inch - I would suggest that 400RPM on those things will potentially wear them out and will not be as optimal as it might be for rollers 2/3 of a foot wide

Dean · October 19, 2011, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: "Richard""(Their average speed is 400 RPM, for the optimal 9.8 inch (250 mm) diameter rollers)."

The malt-mills we have are certainly not 9.8-inch diameter rollers; more like 1.5 inch - I would suggest that 400RPM on those things will potentially wear them out and will not be as optimal as it might be for rollers 2/3 of a foot wide

There was no apparent tachometer present, but the last time I had the good fortune to observe your milling operation in full-swing the sweat rolling off your brow would indicate an estimated steady 60 -75 RPM. Then again, during the period of my scrutinization and subsequent inquiry as to the apparent lack of power drill, the foul look on your face clearly indicated a drop in the aforementioned rate