Grain to Glass in Seven Days

Shawn · August 27, 2011, 06:31:54 PM

Maybe this isn't the place to be bringing this up, but the whole mention of grain to glass in 7 days makes me wonder...

Does anybody else here find that all the Picaroons beers have a real strong diacetyl flavor/aroma? I've never considered myelf to have a very distinguished palate, unfortunately, but their beers all pretty much smell and taste quite buttery to me.

If they ARE going from grain to glass in 7 days and at the same time using Ringwood yeast, this would explain it. But I've never really heard anyone else complain about diacetyl.

Richard · August 28, 2011, 02:07:53 AM

There is definitely a group of flavours that I associate with Picaroons as a a "house flavour", but to me it's more than a buttery note. Hard to describe, but certainly there's a common theme there in which the diacetyl might be a factor.

Did you try the imperial Pilsener (feels good) ? That's the beer that the house signature tastes most out of place & obvious, to me.

Shawn · August 28, 2011, 04:49:42 AM

Yeah, I've had their Imperial Pilsner, and I agree that there's a lot of that flavor there, whatever it is. I find it also sticks out quite a bit in their Irish Red and Best Bitter, as well.

I assume it's mostly due to their yeast, but there's probably some other factors at play too.

Ian Grant · August 28, 2011, 11:53:02 AM

My first brew made with ringwood yeast I got the same mouth feel (which i love) but never got that taste they get that seems to be common with there beer. I thought it came from the yeast but after I tried mine I don't think it is. After looking at there brew log I see they use tettnang at the end in alot of there beers..

Richard · August 28, 2011, 11:57:36 AM

Bear in mind as previously stated, it could be the yeast *and* the short timespan *and* the hydrostatic pressure in the fermentor.

Given we have guys fermenting under pressure now (viewtopic.php?f=9&t=621) it is likely we'll have the chance to check out both of the other factors in time.

My money's on it being a combination of the yeast and the short grain-glass interval.

Shawn · August 28, 2011, 01:57:38 PM

Quote from: "Richard"My money's on it being a combination of the yeast and the short grain-glass interval.

Definitely... 1187 is known to produce a lot of diacetyl, but if you give it time and do a diacetyl rest, you shouldn't really notice it as much, if at all. I don't really get a bunch of diacetyl in the Dogfish Head beers, so they must be doing something(s) different with their Ringwood.

Not to mention the differing house strains, etc.

Dave Savoie · August 28, 2011, 01:58:33 PM

Picaroons uses Hampshire yeast

Dean · August 28, 2011, 05:53:11 PM

yeah ...google
"Picaroons yeast" and you'll see they flip flop back and forth between "our signature ringwood yeast" and "...signature Hampshire yeast"

Shawn · August 28, 2011, 07:24:31 PM

Yeah, I've seen that before. From what I understand (and I could be wrong here, because it's confusing), Ringwood and Hampshire are very similar to each other, with similar qualities... some claim that they're quite different, however, while others refer to them as the same thing.

Either way, a lot of those English yeasts seem to benefit from a long primary and a diacetyl rest, so I guess the outcome is probably the same.

Richard · August 28, 2011, 08:17:58 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringwood

"Ringwood is a historic market town in Hampshire, England, located on the River Avon, close to the New Forest and north of Bournemouth."

Just sayin'

Dean · August 29, 2011, 07:51:39 AM

aha!

Shawn · August 29, 2011, 09:23:43 AM

Bingo.

Kyle · August 29, 2011, 12:58:18 PM

Also,

I think its grain to bottle or keg in 7 days, but then there the time to box, transport, and shift to store shelves / taps. I bet it matures alot during that time.

Shawn · August 29, 2011, 02:45:57 PM

Yes, but maturing in the bottle vs. maturing during primary fermentation (as opposed to being prematurely racked off of still-active yeast) are two very different things.

Richard · August 29, 2011, 02:54:18 PM

Aye... if the yeast is filtered out that removes the element of "clean-up" that they perform post-primary. so far as I'm aware that would mean diacetyl precursors (acetolactate) would not be removed from the beer, and would oxidise into diacetyl, which also would not be removed.

I'm guessing Pic's have good control over the temperature of the primary to avoid absolute butter beer. Start low, end high => minimise precursor production.