A Whiter Shade Of Pale (Ale)

Richard · August 31, 2011, 05:38:54 PM

Ok I messed something up, I suspect an infection was lingering in my keg - the crystal batch is now showing signs of a brett or pedio infection (couldn't say which without a microscope, but it's the same critters that killed my watermelon ale).

Gonna leave the keg soaking in star-san whilst I'm away; ditto the carboy. I'm throwing away all of my soft gear (tubing, bungs, etc) and getting new stuff when I return. Not willing to let another batch go south for the sake of replacing a few bucks worth of gear.

Thankfully the fuggles version seems just A-OK.

Let that be a lesson kids... beware of infection!

brew · August 31, 2011, 06:47:14 PM

Cleaning out my Summer Citrus keg (Richard - you remember the one I got you to taste at Kyles - last meeting? Seemed like some sort of infection?) I found the post was a bit slimy - nothing I could see but it felt like old, sitting in the sun gunk - I may have used too much keg lube - but I think it got a bit of something else in there as well... food for thought that...

Richard · August 31, 2011, 08:00:21 PM

My go-to procedure for suspect containers is oxyclean (24h) followed by star-san (24h). The acidity of the star-san eats any remaining oxyclean off any surfaces.

Like I said before man, it happens to everyone eventually.

Kyle · August 31, 2011, 10:06:22 PM

also, fully disassemble the keg and let the bits sit in cleaner, then scrub. That was definately infected, I could tell by smell alone. One time I got some supposedly sterile liquid malt extract that I used unboiled in a starter (dumb) and the batch was ruined in the same way. It was bacterial contamination.

JohnQ · September 01, 2011, 05:54:23 AM

Did you replace the o rings when you got that keg?
JQ

brew · September 01, 2011, 08:59:07 AM

Actually I did replace the o-rings, cleaned the dip tubes, star san'd it all - but I did also get a bit liberal with the keg lube as well. After that I connected it, put it on 30psi and forgot it for 5 days - wups - then disconnected left the purge valve open a couple of days, connected poured / disconnected - open it up, put in pectin enzyme - connected poured / disconnected - put in gelatin / connected poured / poured / poured - swore !@#$ - poured - swore @#$!

You get the idea - somewhere in there somehow something went wrong. Although, I do have to say that even right after the boil this batch never did smell or taste right... I still suspect there might be something in addition to infection - I'm leaning towards the orange peel...

Dean · September 01, 2011, 11:17:02 AM

my orange wheat beer still doesn't taste right either ...hasn't changed since you guys tasted it 2 weeks ago

Richard · September 01, 2011, 04:34:39 PM

You both use the same source for orange peel?

Brew - if you added the peel at flameout, it's posible it somehow wasn't sanitised if your cooler is real good.

Shawn · September 01, 2011, 04:44:56 PM

Quote from: "Richard"My go-to procedure for suspect containers is oxyclean (24h) followed by star-san (24h).

Does leaving a supposedly-infected surface in contact with Starsan for 24 hours give a higher likelihood of killing bacteria than if you leave it for 60 seconds? Have you done any reading on that? You would think that if there's bacteria, and the Starsan comes in contact with them, they should be dead in the 30 seconds they recommend...?

Trying to figure out all the complexities of infection will just give too big of a headache, anyway, I guess.

Richard · September 01, 2011, 04:48:44 PM

Probably not, it's more of a "take off and nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure" approach, plus I want to be sure that all of the oxy-clean has been stripped off by the star-san (I'd previously used vinegar as an in-between step for bottles before I realised the star-san was also acidic and did the same thing).

The oxy-clean definitely needs the full 24h to properly liquidise all of the crud.

Shawn · September 01, 2011, 04:52:06 PM

In a case like this (if I read through correctly), if there is an infection, do you find it difficult to decide if it happened b/w end-boil and fermentation, or afterwards?

I guess that's a dumb question... how would you know for sure? That's the problem with infection...

Richard · September 01, 2011, 04:52:49 PM

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/media/do ... 0Sheet.pdf

Suggests that 2 mins is the maximum required, so I could probably shorten this to 2 mins + some shaking to nom up all of the residual oxy-clean.

Shawn · September 01, 2011, 05:11:48 PM

Yeah, I was just thinking about that... I think I had read something a couple years ago when I started all this about the max times with Starsan.

Just purchase yourself a Hazmat suit as well and you should be all set.

Richard · September 01, 2011, 05:16:35 PM

I think I'll draw the line at Marigolds

Thinking about it, I should really roll with the lower times for star-san; for all I know the stuff could become ineffective after a while and re-introduce nasties.

Shawn · September 01, 2011, 05:20:08 PM

I don't think so... if you mix it with distilled water when making it up, it'll keep for a very long time and still be good to use. I always keep a spray bottle full of the stuff on hand for quick-sanitizing of spoons, auto-siphons, etc.

As long as it looks clear, and not cloudy, you're good.