Pale Days Ahead - Belgian Pale Ale

[ECH]

Just want to get you guys opinion on this. Had a beer down in NH over the summer, Belgian Pale Ale with Mosaic and Equinox, thought it was fantastic, and while the brewery is being mum on what is in it, I still want to give a shot at trying to replicate it.

Ingredients 

Amt             Name                                                                        Type # %/IBU
15.0 oz           Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM)                                           Grain 1 10.1 %
15.0 oz           Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM)                                              Grain 2 10.1 %
4.0 oz             Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM)                   Grain 3 2.7 %
4.0 oz             Caramunich II (Weyermann) (63.0 SRM)                   Grain 4 2.7 %
15.0 oz           Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM)                                        Dry Extract 5 10.1 %
6 lbs               Pilsner Liquid Extract (3.5 SRM)                                  Extract 6 64.4 %
0.50 oz           Merkur (Hallertauer Merkur) [14.00 %] -                    Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 26.8 IBUs
0.50 oz           Merkur (Hallertauer Merkur) [14.00 %] -                    Boil 30.0 min Hop 8 20.6 IBUs
0.50 Items     Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)                                  Fining 9 -
1.00 oz           Equinox [15.00 %] -                                                   Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 11.4 IBUs
1.00 oz           Equinox [15.00 %] -                                                   Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 11.4 IBUs
1.00 oz           Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] -                                    Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 9.3 IBUs
1.00 oz           Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] -                                    Boil 5.0 min Hop 13 9.3 IBUs
1.0 pkg           Belgian Ale Yeast (Wyeast Labs #1214) [124.21 ml] Yeast 14 -
1.00 oz           Equinox [15.00 %] -                                                   Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz           Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] -                                    Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz           Equinox [15.00 %] -                                                   Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz           Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] -                                    Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 18 0.0 IBUs




5 Gallon batch, 5% ABV, 89IBUs

I was just playing around with when to put the Mosaic and Equinox in it, which is why I have 1oz of each, twice at 5min, as I had one oz of each at 5min and then again at flameout, which actually drops the IBU to about 68.

Combination of what I have left for grains and hops here. Merkur is probably not a traditional hop for a Belgian Pale, but have it on hand in the freezer....for awhile, so should probably use it.

If I add the whole oz at 60min, with 1oz each of Mosaic and Equinox at 5 and flameout, bumps it up to about 74IBU, and 2oz of each Mosaic and Equinox at 5min, bumps it way up to 95IBUs....either way you slice it...wayyyy over the IBU amount for a Belgian Pale.

Which way would you go with the hops?

As well...how about the Aromatic and Biscuit malts? I have about 15oz of each here left over from another batch, too much? Not enough? More so for the Aromatic than the Biscuit.

Trying to make this up with having to buy as little ingredients as I can, at this point basically just need the Pilsner LME and the Equinox hops.

What about adding in corn sugar to the boil? I don't want to sweeten it up too much, but it would dry it out some and about 8oz to the boil would bump the ABV to about 5.7%

Anyway, just looking for some opinions.

[robcoombs]

A hoppy Belgian pale ale...sounds delicious. Especially with equinox and mosaic. I love those hops.

I would definitely drop the 30 minute hop addition. It's 20ibu's you don't need. Even at 68ibu you're into the IPA range let alone 95. Especially at 5% you want to keep your IBU lower, maybe aim for around 45. I would probably move the 5min additions to flame out if you're doing full volume boils. If not maybe keep it at 5min as you won't have as good hop utilization with a smaller boil. 4oz total, at flame out or at 5min should give you a nice hoppy beer. I love the 4oz of dry hop additions as well. I've found lately I don't need to dry hop for 10 days. Even adding all 4oz for 7 days would likely be enough. 

I haven't used this yeast before so I can't comment on the attenuation and therefore need of corn sugar. Check the wyeast site and if it has a high attenuation I would say you don't need it, if it doesn't use the corn sugar to dry it out. You could even compensate by lowering the amount of PLE to keep the abv at 5%.

As for the aromatic malt I would refer to @jamie_savoie or any of the other guys in the club with more experience. I've never used it in a pale ale before.

Keep us updated on how this turns out, it sounds great! 

[ECH]

Trying to replicate (somewhat with my own twist) this beer from Schilling Brewing in Littleton, NH

Racogne (Belgo Pale Ale), 5.5% abv. Hazy orange in appearance with a medium mouthfeel, Racogne ("Ra-con-ia") showcases Mosaic and Equinox hops and a Belgian yeast of medium flavor intensity to produce mellow tropical fruit aromas and 'juicy' hop flavors.

It had very little bitterness, which is why I am contemplating not using the Merkur, as it spikes the IBUs alot. Maybe just a Hallertauer at 60, which with an oz of Mosiac and EQ at 5mins, and an oz of each at flame out brings it down to about the 39IBU range, and the object is not to burn the taste buds out with alot of bitterness and to showcase the Mosaic and Equinox.

Or, German Tradition, which would bump it up to about 43IBUs....not much difference in the end.

The dry hops, I might have entered wrong into the program....oz of each for 7days, then on day 4, add another oz of each until the 7th day. So maybe that should read an oz of each for 4 days, and then add another oz of each for another 3 days, 7 days total.

1214 Belgian Abbey is 74-78% Attenuation.  Don't know if that is considered high or not, seems to be about the same as the other Belgian yeasts, and I have it on hand, and don't think I can get away with more mason jars of collected yeast in the fridge, wife might get a little antsy if it starts replacing stuff like milk and juice in the fridge! LOL

[robcoombs]

If it had very little bitterness stick with the 39 ibu, not that you'd likely notice much difference with 43. I was mistaken, I have used this yeast before. I remember it being very aggressive! So watch out for that. Upwards of 78% is pretty good attenuation, I guess it depends on how dry you want this to finish. I like my pale ales and any hoppy beers to finish as dry as possible. But that's just my preference. I would likely use the corn sugar. But also use less PME to compensate and keep the abv close to 5%.

If the description says a hazy orange colour I would think about dropping the crystal. It's only 4oz but with the caramunich and extract it may get darker than you'd like. But that only matters if srm is something you worry about.

[jamie_savoie]

First I would suggest giving the bjcp style guideline a read
http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style16.php#1b

Belgian PA has almost no hops aroma/flavor.  It should be very subtle.  Your hops schedule is for something like an APA.  Like Rob said I would skip the 30min and I would only use 1oz MAX at FO (or even none at all).  Absolutely no DH at all.   Aim for 25ish ibus.  Also Merkur is very traditional would use it no problem.

If you really want to keep the hops schedule, then I would change the yeast for an American one and call it an APA instead lol  Those hops are nice but they would mask the malt and yeast flavor which are the two stars of this style

As for the grist I think it's heavy on the specialty grains.  25% specialty grains total is a lot.  I would aim for about 15% total.  And since you're using LME I would use even less because LME doesn't dry as good as all grains.  I would also choose either the biscuit or the aromatic (I would choose the biscuit) and would aim 5-8%.  I would remove the cara120 and up the caramunich to 5% instead.  No corn sugar, you don't want to thin the body, you want all the maltiness you can get

One last thing, the yeast.  Have you ever used it before?  Personally it's my least favorite Belgian yeast.  not a fan of the banana flavor it gives but it's just me.  I could never achieve the chimay flavor with that yeast no matter what temp I ferment it.  Even at low temp you still get that banana flavor. 

That's my 2 cent, hope it help 

[ECH]

All well and good, but keep in mind I am trying to replicate a beer I had in the US over the summer, which they bill as a Belgian Pale Ale.

I have used the yeast before, and have it collected on hand, which is the reason for using it.

[Roger]

Lots of good advice here. I haven't had that beer and I haven't used that strain of yeast before but when I did a Belgian IPA dry hopping didn't take away from the yeast it added to it somehow. I approached it like an American Pale Ale. I used the forbidden fruit yeast and dry hopped with citra. It was delicious. At least I thought so...

10# pearl
10# bohemian pilsner
1# biscuit
.25# acidulated malt
First wort- .5 oz Polaris
.5 Polaris @90min
1oz cascade @30min
1oz Apollo @15min
1oz cascade @whilpool
1oz citra @whirplool
2oz citra @7 days
-54 IBU's
-6% ABV

This is obviously a Frankenstein beer with ingredients from US, Germany, UK and Canada. Kind of a fusion beer. But I liked it alot as a matter of fact I think I'm gonna put it in the rotation.
That's the thing with home brewing. Try stuff, experiment and have fun. Worst case scenario you make beer.

[ECH]

Yeah, not too concerned about keeping inside the lines of a particular style, just trying to replicate a beer I had in the US. After a couple of requests for ingredients, they haven't bothered to reply, which is fine, their beer, their prerogative, just means a little more experimentation.

Their description is pretty much all I have to go on, Belgian Pale Ale, 5.5%ABV, hazy orange color, highlighting Mosaic and Equinox hops.

Based on the description and the ingredients I have here, was just trying to come close, and wasn't sure if 15oz of Biscuit and Aromatic would be too much. Seems the biscuit would probably be fine, might dial back the aromatic some though, and swap out the bittering hop for something less in your face, since I don't want it to overpower the mosaic and equinox.

Besides, the experimentation is half the fun anyway.


Funny thing about breweries, you get some, like Schilling, that won't answer an e-mail....even if they had e-mailed me back and said no, sorry we can't tell you.....I would have been fine with that (not that I am not fine now), then you have others like Wellington Brewing in Ontario, when I asked them on a whim about their Russian Imperial Stout, they couldn't have been more helpful. The only thing they couldn't help me with was the type of yeast they used, because even they didn't know what it was. All the guy told me was that they knew it came from the UK originally, but from whom, they didn't know, and that it had mutated through multiple uses to what it is today, that it probably wouldn't be the same anyway.

[feldmann]

They might just not answer emails. When I made my Nordic farmhouse, Riot in Portland didn't respond to the email listed on their website but they did respond to a facebook message within minutes and pretty much gave me an exact recipe with their entire process.

[ECH]

They might just not answer emails. When I made my Nordic farmhouse, Riot in Portland didn't respond to the email listed on their website but they did respond to a facebook message within minutes and pretty much gave me an exact recipe with their entire process.

I have sent an e-mail, message through Facebook, and through Twitter, and no bueno on any of them.