Whirlpool Immersion Chiller

Chris Craig · November 26, 2012, 11:30:50 PM

Interesting...

http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php

fakr · November 27, 2012, 12:07:25 AM

Very interesting.

A couple of points that came to mind:

-that thing is 50' of 1/2 copper...of course it's going to cool things down super fast. I'm sure a counterflow chiller with the same specs will chill things down just as fast.

-I chill and transfer 5GAL every 5 minutes with my CFC...I think that's reasonable. That immersion chiller would probably cool 15GAL down in the same time, but then you have to transfer it to fermenters.

-I really like the idea of not transferring cold break into the fermenter, and the immersion does that....but so does my counterflow along with the bottom shape of my kettle and the filter I use. It's been a long time (before my CFC and current kettle) since I've seen any cold break in my fermenters...nothing but yeast cake.

Something the immersion does do over the CFC...allows you to cool wort in the kettle fast, leaving the cold break at the bottom and allowing you to siphone clean beer off the top..... ah, I think that's why I made a CFC...I hate siphoning...

At the end of the day, everyone has their preference.

That is a really good article though. Great design. I would have jumped on that if I hadn't have built a CFC.

BTW, I think JohnQ has plans up his sleave for a 50' CFC using 1" pex and 1/2" copper...lets see how that puppy performs!

jeffsmith · November 27, 2012, 08:24:27 AM

Before I got my plate chiller, I had a similar setup—a 25' ?" immersion chiller, and a piece of copper similar to this that I recirculated through with a greatbreweh pump to create a whirlpool. It ended up shaving 10+ minutes off my chilling time for a 5.5 gallon batch.

Chris Craig · March 22, 2013, 10:41:02 PM

I'm doing this. Ther is one main reason: Hops.

An immersion chiller with a whirlpool arm can bring down the whole batch very quickly. Much quicker than a CFC can. That means late addition hops serve their intended purpose. It took me a long time to realize this, but once I did I couldn't get it out of my head.

Using a pump with the whirlpool arm should allow me to get below 100F in 3 or 4 minutes. The rest of the drop should be a bit longer, but I anticipate only a few extra minutes added to brew day by using this technique.

JohnQ · March 24, 2013, 07:40:09 AM

Seems to me the same effect could be had by whirlpooling with a CFC for the first few minutes...I can output 50-60 degree wort from the CFC, colder if I wanted to prechill the cooling water...every gallon of 60 degree wort going back in to the kettle via the whirlpool would create 2 couple of gallons of 120ish, which would so by the time half the kettle is recirculated the temp would be down around 120, probably below 100 given the constant sliding scale you'd be dealing with, as the kettle cools coming out colder still at the cfc.
Might be worth building the recirculate arm to see how it would work.
I've done a little recirculating while cooling a couple of times, but only cowboy style with the hose run back in to the kettle.
Reading the article more closely, he does mention using a CFC / whirlpool combo but claims you can't hit exact temps with a cfc...I beg to differ. If you control your water output flow rate, as well as your wort input flow rate, you can nail any temp you want, right down to your water input temp. If you need a lower than source water final temp, then you can do as he suggests and pre-chill your cooling water with ice or even a combo of ice and rock salt. You dotn't even need a pump for your cooling water that has been pre-chilled if you have a keg or two to spare.

Regardless, what he's doing clearly does work, I just think that his claims about CFC's or Plate Chillers is off base.

After the MO is over, I'll look at a little build and demonstrate to see if I'm right.

JQ

Chris Craig · March 24, 2013, 08:23:01 AM

Well, I'm brewing this afternoon. I'll give it a try and see how long it takes to drop the temperature down below 120F or so.

JohnQ · March 24, 2013, 08:27:41 AM

Quote from: "ChrisCraig"Well, I'm brewing this afternoon. I'll give it a try and see how long it takes to drop the temperature down below 120F or so.

That's great, I'll be interested to hear with your CFC and your well water temp if it works as well.
I'm betting it does. The testimonials at the bottom article start off with a guy saying wow about getting 1 gpm down to 65F... that's dead easy with our well water/cfc temps without a Recirculation, will be really interesting to see it with.

JQ

Richard · March 24, 2013, 09:29:46 AM

I had thought about this before, and I'm also a little skeptical about the claims - given he gives only a hypothesis and no data to back it up. A comparison would be excellent, if someone has the time/resources:

Water usage, speed of cooling, cold break isolation (in-kettle) - would be my main three interests.

pliny · March 24, 2013, 02:14:40 PM

I have that type of setup and it's about 4 minutes to get to 140F and about 15 minutes to get to 75F.
At the 4 min mark I went through about 6-7 gals of water i suppose. Getting it below 140F is my big concern. That water gets re-used.
At the 15 min mark it's about another 18-20 gals. Its much quicker than before for my setup.

Chris Craig · March 24, 2013, 04:41:18 PM

After about 7 minutes recirculating through the CFC, the temp dropped to 180.i gave up and just ran the wort as usual. This is way too slow. I think the immersion while recirculating is the more efficient way.

JohnQ · March 24, 2013, 05:13:37 PM

Quote from: "ChrisCraig"After about 7 minutes recirculating through the CFC, the temp dropped to 180.i gave up and just ran the wort as usual. This is way too slow. I think the immersion while recirculating is the more efficient way.

Wow, that's really interesting.
I'm very surprised, any idea what temp the wort was exiting the CFC at?

JQ

Richard · March 24, 2013, 05:16:13 PM

Hmm... really seems like some calculus would provide a concrete model here, and if I weren't mildly tipsy on a Sunday afternoon I'd do the math. Maybe later...

Chris Craig · March 24, 2013, 05:24:59 PM

Probably around mid 70s. My ground water is low 50s.

chrismccull · March 24, 2013, 05:29:44 PM

The flowrates would be key for proper heat transfer.

JohnQ · March 24, 2013, 05:52:48 PM

A full fledged experiment is called for...
RB, you've got to get on the math, mine is too simple nowadays, i adjust the flow rate of both my wort input and cooling coil output to hit the temps I want, but I'm :shock: 'd that it was only down 30 degrees in 7 mins...

CC, how long did it usually take with your CFC to cool 10 gallons?

JQ