Pilot Brewery

sdixon · November 06, 2012, 08:42:25 PM

Hey guys, looking at building (mostly buying actually) a 1bbl system for pilot batches. Here is a list... suggestions welcome. I am considering a BCS 462 in place of the EBC III controller. T Highgreavitybrew.com site "Build Your Own Brewery" selection doesn't seem to offer pumps? Or am I missing something? If not, are March pumps the way to go, or would those small pumps some of you were looking at be ok for a 1bbl system?

Chris Craig · November 06, 2012, 08:50:39 PM

If you're looking at this kind of money, spend the extra $100 and change to get a March pump instead of one of these DC pumps. My DC pump works fine, but the fittings are a nightmare.

Also, to add to your list, you'll need silicone hoses and QDs to move the wort around.

Are you going to be using this in your house?

sdixon · November 06, 2012, 09:37:58 PM

QuoteIf you're looking at this kind of money, spend the extra $100 and change to get a March pump instead of one of these DC pumps. My DC pump works fine, but the fittings are a nightmare

Yeah I have no experience with them, but if there are challenges, I see your point.

QuoteAlso, to add to your list, you'll need silicone hoses and QDs to move the wort around.

Yes, and fermentation, and, and, and...

JohnQ · November 06, 2012, 11:32:43 PM

Quote from: "sdixon"Highgreavitybrew.com site "Build Your Own Brewery" selection doesn't seem to offer pumps? Or am I missing something?

The HERMS package they sell includes a March Pump, and I called and had a second one added.

You should probably test the one they sell first and see if there is a more spendy version of the March Pump that can push a little more wort.

JQ

fakr · November 07, 2012, 12:14:18 PM

I'm assuming the heat exchanger is the HERMS coil? that's pretty cheap, but I would really strongly recommend building your own HERMS coil in your HLT. The highest quality build I've seen is using 50' of 1/2" stainless tubing, coiled into your HLT. the inputs and outputs are compression fitted to 2 dedicated ball valves. Very easy to clean, and indipendant of other fittings on your HLT.

Here is a link to the retrofit:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/hot-l ... ank?page=5

That's a great site by the way Steve. Might give you some ideas on how to setup your 1BBL system.

This is the site I'm using as a reference when building the bcs-462 controller.

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-1

fakr · November 07, 2012, 12:16:56 PM

So almost $1200 in electronics for the ecb-3 and the herms controller?

the bcs would definitely be cheaper.

Maybe you, John, and I can come up with an arrangement on getting the controllers made sooner than later.
Going to try hard to come up for the meeting this saturday, for the day, and perhaps we can discuss further then.

JohnQ · November 07, 2012, 01:48:10 PM

The HERMS coil is really the only disappointment with the HighGravity system for me.
Not a high enough flow rate to accurately control temps I think, and I'm not sure it it's a function of too small diameter coil, or the march pump, or both. I expect it's just the coil is too narrow, restricting the flow rate.

JQ

sdixon · November 07, 2012, 02:37:47 PM

The HERMS package also includes a march Pump in the cost. I agree with both Sr. and Jr. - I should Build my own HERMS system with SS (& larger dia.). Would probably also want to use silicone tubing instead of vinyl, for ease of use if nothing else.

And Fakr... yes I am interested in working with you and JQ on the controller if we can do it in a reasonable timeframe. It sounds pretty cool! Getting the high Gravity System will take 15+ days. In my experience that means 3 weeks. In that time I need to get basement ready (ventilation, electrical, plumbing and stand), which should be doable in 3 weeks. I may be more technical than the average Joe (not you Joe ;-) but I don't want to have the controller be too complicated. Would hate to not be able to brew because I could figure out how to make my controller talk to my system. :? Let's talk.

Unfortunately, I can't make the meeting this week... busy all day Saturday with my girls and overnight in SJ.

fakr · November 07, 2012, 03:39:54 PM

ok, sounds good. We'll talk more soon.

My concern with building you a controller is that I'd hold you up from brewing by running into issues, or not being able to source all parts in a timely fashion...

JohnQ · November 07, 2012, 04:48:25 PM

Upon Further review,
another idea that I've considered for my 55 gallon boil kettle, is a second element in the Boil Kettle, so you can have twice the power for the heat up.

JQ

sdixon · November 07, 2012, 05:23:49 PM

JQ - Are you suggesting I would need it? Is yours underpowered for as a kettle? I was planning to use the BK to have hot water on hand after mashing in, so I could pump that hot water over to the HLT in case I needed more in the HLT for HERMS.

Joe, let's talk... I'm probably not going to order until Sunday or Monday. I'm going through all my plans now... when I spend that $$ I want to ensure I'm making the best decision. I was thinking Stout Tanks and Kettles (their pricing is good too), but they take 3 - 4 months to build after you order.

Speaking of stout tanks and kettles, does anyone have any knowledge of Brewmation controls?

http://www.brewmation.com/3bbl.html

JohnQ · November 07, 2012, 05:45:21 PM

Time=$$$

You could always add a second one later, but I've found that the time it takes to heat up the water can be long.
I think it's the one place the Electric falls down, it's cheaper, but can't provide the raw energy that gas can...fast.
So when the Time=$$$ formula kicks in, it might be worthwhile.
You could wait until you've done a few batches then decide and add a second if you think it's worhtwhile.

JQ

fakr · November 07, 2012, 06:41:21 PM

keep your power requirements in mind guys. a 5500W element pulls a little over 20 amps, so having potentially 3 running at the same time would be over 60A. I think a typical dryer recepticle is 30A, and a stove recepticle is 40A...

If you're going for a potential 60A with 3 elements, there will be substantial powerwiringreaker upgrade cost.

just throwing that out there.

sdixon · November 07, 2012, 06:54:03 PM

QuoteIf you're going for a potential 60A with 3 elements, there will be substantial powerwiringreaker upgrade cost.

True... I'm fortunate that my neighbor is an electrician who just volunteered to help... and he likes drinking my beer :-)

fakr · November 07, 2012, 07:12:36 PM

Just checked out the brewmation controls. Looks like a solid option for converting a gas setup to electric.

Steve, check out the control system from electric brewery.

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel

They have a real solid setup. You might want to look at their 50A back to back setup. I'd even recommend giving them a call.

They sell their control panels either plug n play, or as a kit, where assemply is required. They charge around $750 to assemble the panel for you.

The 50A back to back only comes as a kit at the moment, and is designed for brewers who are running back to back batches. it allows you to run a pair of 4500W elements (the kettle and HLT) at the same time.

So after reviewing the above, and my previous post, you should only run 2 x 4500W elements at the same time with a 50A circuit....not supposed to exceed 80% of a circuit's amperage.

Sooooo.....a person could instal dual 4500W elements in both the HLT and boil kettle, and only power 2 elements at a time....that would work out, but you'd have to manually unplug and plug elements in as you need them.