Some Points On Carbonation.

[Richard]

Carbonation came up at the meeting this week, and so I thought I'd try to boil down the (often conflicting) information regarding per-style guidelines.

I was wrong about pilseners being 3-4 volumes; brainfart, sorry. The beers at that level are generally wheat beers and lambics.

Firstly, these are guidelines. We still have free will, so I often will freely ignore these

For one thing, perception of carbonation will differ depending on FG and flavour profiles. The BJCP guidelines are generally concerned with perception rather than chemical or physical fact, so far as I can tell. They deal with carbonation in terms of low/medium/high, which is a bit of a PITA when you're trying to find a target to shoot for when priming or force-carbing. As with everything involving perception just dial it in using your own taste, and others'.

These values are taken from http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/priming.html

American Lager - Light/Standard/Premium (2.57-2.73)
American Lager - Dark (2.5-2.7)
American Lager - Classic American Pilsner (2.3-2.5)
European Pale Lager - Bohemian Pilsner (2.3-2.5)
European Pale Lager - Northern German Pilsner (2.52)
European Pale Lager - Dortmunder Export (2.57)
European Pale Lager - Muenchner Helles (2.26-2.68)
Light Ale - Blond Ale (2.3-2.6)
Light Ale - American Wheat (2.3-2.6)
Light Ale - Cream Ale (2.6-2.7)
Bitter And English Pale Ale - Ordinary Bitter (.75-1.3)
Bitter And English Pale Ale - Special or Best Bitter (.75-1.3)
Bitter And English Pale Ale - Strong Bitter / English Pale Ale (.75-1.3)
Scottish Ales - Light 60/- (.75-1.3)
Scottish Ales - Heavy 70/- (.75-1.3)
Scottish Ales - Export 80/- (.75-1.3)
American Pale Ales - American Pale Ale (2.26-2.78)
American Pale Ales - American Amber Ale (2.26-2.78)
American Pale Ales - California Common Beer (2.4-2.
India Pale Ale - India Pale Ale (1.5-2.3)
Koelsch And Altbier - Koelsch-Style Ale (2.42-2.73)
Koelsch And Altbier - Duesseldorf Altbier (2.16-3.09)
Koelsch And Altbier - Northern German Altbier (2.16-3.09)
German Amber Lager - Oktoberfest/Maerzen (2.57-2.73)
German Amber Lager - Vienna Lager (2.4-2.6)
Brown Ale - Mild (1.3-2.0)
Brown Ale - Northern English Brown Ale (1.5-2.3)
Brown Ale - Southern English Brown (1.5-2.3)
Brown Ale - American Brown Ale (1.5-2.5)
English And Scottish Strong Ale - Old Ale (1.5-2.3)
English And Scottish Strong Ale - Strong Scotch Ale (Wee Heavy) (1.5-2.3)
Barleywine And Imperial Stout - English-style Barleywine (1.3-2.3)
Barleywine And Imperial Stout - American-Style Barleywine (1.3-2.3)
Barleywine And Imperial Stout - Russian Imperial Stout (1.5-2.3)
European Dark Lager - Munich Dunkel (2.21-2.66)
European Dark Lager - Schwarzbier (Black Beer) (2.2-2.6)
Bock - Traditional Bock (2.2-2.7)
Bock - Helles Bock/Maibock (2.16-2.73)
Bock - Doppelbock (2.26-2.62)
Bock - Eisbock (2.37)
Porter - Robust Porter (1.8-2.5)
Porter - Brown Porter (1.7-2.5)
Stout - Dry Stout (1.6-2.0)
Stout - Sweet Stout (2.0-2.4)
Stout - Oatmeal Stout (2.0-2.4)
Stout - Foreign Extra Stout (2.3-2.6)
Wheat Beer - Bavarian Weizen (3.6-4.48)
Wheat Beer - Bavarian Dunkelweizen (3.6-4.48)
Wheat Beer - Berliner Weisse (3.45)
Wheat Beer - Weizenbock (3.71-4.74)
Strong Belgian Ale - Dubbel (1.9-2.4)
Strong Belgian Ale - Tripel (1.9-2.4)
Strong Belgian Ale - Belgian Strong Golden Ale (1.9-2.4)
Strong Belgian Ale - Belgian Strong Dark Ale (1.9-2.5)
Belgian And French Ale - Belgian Pale Ale (1.9-2.5)
Belgian And French Ale - Witbier (2.1-2.6)
Belgian And French Ale - Biere de Garde (1.9-2.5)
Belgian And French Ale - Saison (1.9-2.4)
Belgian And French Ale - Belgian Specialty Ale (1.9-2.4)
Lambic And Belgian Sour Ale - Straight (Unblended) Lambic-Style (3.0-4.5)
Lambic And Belgian Sour Ale - Gueuze/Geuze-Style Ale (3.0-4.5)
Lambic And Belgian Sour Ale - Fruit Lambic-Style Ale (2.6-4.5)
Lambic And Belgian Sour Ale - Oud Bruin (1.9-2.5)
Lambic And Belgian Sour Ale - Flanders Red Ale (1.9-2.5)
Fruit Beer - Fruit Beer (2.0-3.0)
Spice/Herb/Vegetable Beer - Spice/Herb/Vegetable (2.0-3.0)
Smoke-flavored Beer - Classic Rauchbier (2.16-2.57)
Smoke-flavored Beer - Other Smoked Beer (2.16-2.57)
Specialty/Experimental/Historical - Specialty/Experimental/Histroical (2.2-2.5)
Mead - Traditional Mead (1.0-3.5)
Mead - Varietal Honey Traditional Mead (1.0-3.5)
Mead - Cyser (Apple Melomel) (1.0-3.5)
Mead - Pyment (Grape Melomel) (1.0-3.5)
Mead - Other Fruit Melomel (1.0-3.5)
Mead - Metheglin (1.0-3.5)
Mead - Braggot (1.0-3.5)
Mead - Mixed Category Mead (1.0-3.5)
Cider - Standard Cider and Perry (1.0-3.5)
Cider - New England-Style Cider (1.0-3.5)

[JohnQ]

So the coolest device I've used is a motor mounted force carb device that my buddy that runs the wine making place in Nanaimo uses.
Hook up CO2 to the gas in, liquid in, liquid out, turn on motor, set desired psi by chart for desired volume and wait for the regulator to stop gassing...done.
Been looking for one, if anyone knows what I'm talkin' about.
JQ

[Kyle]

JQ: Not sure what a motor would bring to the equation unless it was actually in the keg creating agitation... interesting.

Richard: One thing I would add to the carbonation volumes thingy is that unless it is for the purpose of a competition, I would never bother to measure the volumes of C02 in solution mathematically, rather I carbonate to taste using the method I described in the "Portable Tap" discussion in the General forum, posted again below:

After much reading and experimenting, I find the best balance of preformance, time requried, and ease is:

put beer in keg
put keg in kegerator
hook up to C02 at 30psi for 48 hours
bleed pressure, set at serving pressure (for me, 10psi with 15' of 3/16" hose)
wait an hour, sample, if needed: turn back up to 30psi for 2 hours, sample, repeat.
works every time.

Although, of course, I do take the reccomended style-based carbonation levels into consideraton, but only roughly... generally, I prefer about 2.6 volumes of C02, or 3.5 in wheat beers.

[Richard]

If you stuck 2.6 volumes into your summer ale I'm surprised... it certainly seemed more like 2. I guess maybe once it's in a growler it dissipates a little.

All that said, I'm not one to take the guidelines as canon law, but a target helps when you've only got one shot, as with bottle priming.

[Kyle]

yeah, growerling from keg you lose some carbonation

[JohnQ]

JQ: Not sure what a motor would bring to the equation unless it was actually in the keg creating agitation... interesting.

I'm pretty sure the purpose of the motor was to actually drive the pump.
Because you hook up the Keg Liquid out and Gas in to either side of the pump and the CO2 from regulator to a 3rd port in the pump, there is nothing driving the beer except the pump pulling it out of the keg and spitting it back in the CO2 port of the keg, it's a closed system so you only use the CO2 on the head to prime the pump, then connect a pump out to the CO2 in port on keg, if I'm making sense.
It carbed a keg perfectly regardless of temp, we could set the pressure from the CO2 regulator to whatever was appropriate for the temp of the Beer to achieve the correct volume of CO2, we used the little temp/volume/pressure chart. Run till the pump started to make high pitched cavitation type of noise, the beer had stopped absorbing CO2, twas done.
Chill to desired serving temp and crack it open.
Was very handy.