New Brunswick Craft Brewers Association

Brewing => Hops => Topic started by: shazapple on February 15, 2016, 04:27:45 PM

Title: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on February 15, 2016, 04:27:45 PM
Looking to grow some of my own hops, thinking of going for 5 or 6 Centennial or Cascade plants. Any recommendations on spots to buy from? Looking through old posts I came across these guys http://www.crannogales.com/collections/hops-rhizomes
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Two Wheeler on February 15, 2016, 04:32:16 PM
I've heard Scott's has cascade but can't confirm that. I'd also like to grow some hops this summer
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: feldmann on February 15, 2016, 05:35:07 PM
Several people in the club have cascade, that's where I got mine from.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Roger on February 15, 2016, 07:06:09 PM
If you're looking for Cascade rhizomes I can definitely hook you up this spring.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: ECH on February 16, 2016, 12:31:53 AM
I get mine from a guy in BC via the Canadian Brewing Forum.

Have 2 Chinook, 1 Fuggles and 1 Golding that are going on to 3rd yr plants. 2 Mt. Hood didn't survive the first winter, and the Cascade and Centennial I got last year sat in the fridge too long due to our long ass winter (April 1st, still 6ft of snow in my back yard)

This year, going to try it again with 2 Cent, and 2 Cascade on the way, and possibly a Columbus.

Chinook, Fuggles and Golding will be going in the ground this year (been growing them in 5gal pails for the last 2 yrs). 2nd yr plant and I got about an ounce and a half off of the 2 Chinook plants combined, and about an ounce combined of the Fuggles and Golding. Likely not ready to have rhizomes cut from them this year, come spring of 2017 they should be ready, however clippings to make clones could be arranged in the spring once I have them out. Won't get you any cones for 2016, but it is a start. Might clone the Chinook. I did last year and they started growing in the glass with water, but left them too long.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on February 16, 2016, 09:18:19 AM
Thanks Roger, that would be great! Sounds like the plants have done well in our climate.

Maybe I'll hold off on getting centennial until later in the spring, or I wonder if I could start them a bit early in a greenhouse.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Roger on February 16, 2016, 10:40:09 AM
Remind me in a few weeks so don't forget about ya.
I can't see why you couldn't start them in a green house as long as it's warm enough you should be good. But if it were me I'd just wait a few weeks and get it all done at the same time.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: geezer on February 16, 2016, 02:42:15 PM
  Is it possible to grow most varieties of hops here in NB or is it necessary to choose hardy varieties?  Planted hops several times years ago and they never overwintered.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on February 16, 2016, 02:59:46 PM
Our area is cold and wet, so the varieties that require more heat or have poor mildew resistance won't do well. If they didn't survive the winter they may not of had good growing conditions (too wet, not enough sun, etc).
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: ECH on February 18, 2016, 11:55:47 PM
Haven't grown them in a green house, but have in the house in a window. So long as the green house is warm enough, you shouldn't have a problem. They will grow fast though. Biggest danger is pinching the bine when transferring it outside.

As far as growing them here. Our latitude is the same as Yakima valley where most of the hops in the US are grown.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: RossBee on February 22, 2016, 05:55:11 PM
Maritime Hop Growers Association sell rhizomes, check them out on Facebook.  They have quite the variety and reasonable pricing. Had good luck with them and they are local.

Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: geezer on February 22, 2016, 06:58:23 PM
Like to support local, will check them out
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on February 23, 2016, 09:50:23 PM
I have an order in for 6 centennial plants from Bramble Hill Farm down in NS, I think they are part of that association. I didn't realize the association sold rhizomes, I'll have to see what else they might have though, thanks!
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: JohnQ on February 24, 2016, 04:22:49 PM
In reply to the survival rate,
We have successfully overwintered:
Cascade
Centennial
Chinook
Fuggle
Galena
Magnum
Nugget
Willamette

Not sure how spring is going to be this year, so much depends on the bees, but we might have some of all of those available.
If not as Rhizomes, definitely as clippings that can be rooted.

JQ
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: HopHead on February 29, 2016, 04:07:24 PM
I'd love to start some rhizoms this spring, thinking Centennial, Cascade, maybe Chinook. If there are any extras, I'd take some. If not, i'll order some.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Alain2 on March 31, 2016, 11:20:53 AM
Everwood Ave brew shop is now selling rhizomes.

You can pre-order now

http://www.everwoodavebrewshop.com/category-s/366.htm
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Two Wheeler on March 31, 2016, 11:42:56 AM
Awesome, just ordered Cascade, Centennial and Goldings.

Should I start these in buckets first, or straight into the ground?
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Roger on April 01, 2016, 12:03:43 AM
Personaly I'd put them in the ground when any risk of frost is gone. Make sure you have good fertile soil and good drainage. Also you'll want as much southern facing exposure as possible. This is what has worked for me anyways.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: ECH on April 04, 2016, 02:30:11 AM
Depends on how far in advance you get them. This year is an anomaly for weather, yet still too soon to put them out. No reason why you can't put them in pots now, in a sunny window, and then transplant them outside when the weather is right.

Be cautious though as they can grow fast inside, which makes them delicate when transplanting. I lost 2 Mt. Hood when transplanting because the bines got pinched.

And the ones I got last year, I waited too long to plant them (not wanting to take a risk of growing them inside and then having the bines pinched again) as we still had about 6ft of snow in the backyard this time last year, and when I finally did plant them in pots, they were already dead, and got no growth.

I have grown them in pots for the last 2 yrs, didn't get crazy yield off of them last year, but enough off of a couple 2nd yr plants for a batch. However they are going in the ground as soon as I can safely get them there.

Just got 2 Centennial and 2 Cascade from "my guy" out west, they will get potted tomorrow, and then probably transplanted outside end of April depending on the weather. These will go along with my 2 Chinook, a Fuggles and a Golding.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: HopHead on April 08, 2016, 12:21:12 PM
Put my order in through Everwood. Was told that they will ship late next week. FYI.  :)
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Two Wheeler on April 18, 2016, 02:45:23 PM
Got my rhizomes on Friday!

Are they safe to go in the ground yet?

Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Roger on April 18, 2016, 04:44:47 PM
I'd say as long as the ground is soft you can get your mounds ready and plant them. Might not be a bad idea to tent them with some plastic vapour barrier or some black garbage bags when there's any chane of frost.
But then again I usually have a black thumb...
 ;)
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: ECH on April 19, 2016, 02:49:10 AM
I go by my Grandfather whom has had a garden for the last 40 or so years (this will be his first without), and he wouldn't put anything like a tomato or cuke plant out until end of April, because you just never know what weather we will get.

I would pretty much treat hops the same way.

You could get away with a black plastic tent if you do have to put them out now. It would help warm the soil around the plant as well. Contemplating putting black plastic down in the fall and covering with mulch for the winter. Come spring, just clear off the mulch from the plastic closes to the plant and let the sun to the rest, it would heat up the ground quicker in the spring. Don't know that I would leave it over the summer, as it might cook them.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on May 01, 2016, 05:17:01 PM
Thanks for the rhizomes Roger! Finally got them planted today. Used my PhD to dig the holes and filled them with a mix of topsoil and compost. I was aiming for a 14ft pole but ended up with a 20ft once the Cedar tree was cut and limbed. I installed eyelets at the top and  plan to run bailer twine up to the shackle then normal rope through the eyelets and  down so I can lower everything at the end of the year. 

I have a second post installed as well for the centennial rhizomes coming next week.   :cheers:
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Scott on May 02, 2016, 11:15:57 AM
Used my PhD to dig the holes



ha, sounds like a Fred Eaglesmith song  :)
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Two Wheeler on May 11, 2016, 04:33:18 PM
Mine have been in the ground for about 2 weeks and no sign of life yet.

I dug a hole in an existing planter bed, filled with potting soil and laid in the rhizome, then I covered back up with the topsoil and mulch. Would the mulch be inhibiting growth?

Also, should I be watering these things daily?

#blackthumb
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on May 11, 2016, 04:44:50 PM
Some of mine already had leaves so those ones are growing like mad. The others I buried a couple inches down with the tip of the sprout just peaking out of the soil and they are only just getting going.

It's been fairly cool so I've only watered mine a couple times a week but they will need more during summer. I poke my finger in the ground to see if the soil is dry.

Edit: the above refer to the rhizomes I got from Roger, which were 6" or more. The ones I ordered off the internet were only 1-2" long, so I suspect they would need a little more time to get established. I planted them yesterday in the same manner as above.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Roger on May 11, 2016, 06:30:00 PM
Mine have been in the ground for about 2 weeks and no sign of life yet.

I dug a hole in an existing planter bed, filled with potting soil and laid in the rhizome, then I covered back up with the topsoil and mulch. Would the mulch be inhibiting growth?

Also, should I be watering these things daily?

#blackthumb
You have been watering them though right? Dont over water them or you might cause root rot. Mulch shouldn't harm them. Are you using dyed mulch? That might not be good for them but still shouldn't kill them. Give them time they should be fine.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: nagirroc on May 11, 2016, 07:13:02 PM
Flowers are planted.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Al-Loves-Wine on May 11, 2016, 07:45:49 PM
Mine have been in the ground for about 2 weeks and no sign of life yet.

I dug a hole in an existing planter bed, filled with potting soil and laid in the rhizome, then I covered back up with the topsoil and mulch. Would the mulch be inhibiting growth?

Also, should I be watering these things daily?

#blackthumb

What strains did you plant, Jordan? I planted 7 new varieties last year, and a few were very slow to come. Goldings are quite slow, as with Nugget Willamette, Mt. Hood and Galena. Cascade was a bit slow for me first year as well. However this year the Nugget and Columbus are currently all about 3+ inches now. Columbus is no surprise though, its a super hardy high yielding variety.

I personally like to broadcast a little lime on the soil and let precipitation do the rest. As Roger mentioned you will definitely get rot/mildew if you over water, but once they are out of the ground and going good don't be shy. Especially when they come into flower!

A friend of mine has built several permaculture beds for his hops, and I can say for his first year his were very impressive.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Two Wheeler on May 11, 2016, 10:06:25 PM
Thanks guys! I have watered the hops about twice per week. It's not dyed mulch either. Guess I'll just wait and see. And Al- I planted cascade, Chinook and centennial


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Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: ECH on May 12, 2016, 12:31:47 AM
Got mine out from their winter storage (they have been in 5gal buckets the last 2yrs, but going in the ground this year), and none have any growth that I can see on them yet.

2 Chinook, 1 Golding, 1 Fuggles.

The new ones I got this year, 2 Centennial and 2 Cascade. Both Centennial have come up, one is growing like a bad week, the other popped up about 2" and then seemed to have stopped growing. Not sure what is up with that.

The 2 cascade haven't shown any sign of life at all. Tempted to gently pull back the soil to see if there is any growth at all, if not...likely toast.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Roger on May 12, 2016, 12:52:54 AM
They should start any day now my cascade are about 16" tall and my Hersbrucker are about 2 feet tall right now. But I'm gonna cut them all down and start from new to get some strong new growth. They say the first shoots are weaker than the second wave. So I think I'll give that a try this year it makes sense to me because the first shoots get a little damage from frost. So we'll see I guess...
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on May 23, 2016, 05:09:14 PM
Got my lines up today. It was a bit sketchy setting a 20ft ladder up against the post but I survived. Some lines are two strands of bailer twine and some are single strand, so we will see how they stand up to weight and sun. They tie at the top onto some old electric fence wire... I may switch that out later. It ties at the bottom like to flagpole so it will be easier to switch.

My hop are only 4 or 5" tall at the moment. 
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on June 23, 2016, 12:34:31 PM
I took this picture of my cascade on Sunday when they were all 3-4 feet, and now most of them are up to 6 feet tall. The centennial are still only just starting to climb. I'm going to have to rig up some sort of watering system as hauling 50L of water up to them every other day is getting old!
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on June 23, 2016, 02:56:27 PM
I also had a soil test done and was lucky enough to find some info on soil fertility for hops.
http://www.greatlakeshops.com/hops-blog/the-basics-of-understanding-soil-fertility-and-soil-testing

Overall my soil is low and too acidic. I've already applied lime which will take a couple years to bring up the pH. The other items I'll have to work at and monitor over the years. It almost reminds me of the whole process of figuring out the right salt additions for brewing.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on July 06, 2016, 11:22:51 AM
Bines on the cascade are up to about 9-10 feet. Some centennial are 3-4 feet but others are more bushy and haven't grown upwards. Most of the cascade are growing laterals now (little bines that grow sideways) so I might see some flowering before the end of July.

I bought a soaker hose for irrigation which seems to work well, although it makes it difficult to know how much water I'm putting on. I need to spread some hay around the base of the plants for weed control and apply some micronutrients as well.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: JohnQ on July 07, 2016, 07:20:02 AM
This was on June 27th, since then all but 1 are at top line.

JQ
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Two Wheeler on July 07, 2016, 09:28:23 AM
Man... mine are weak. My Chinook grew about 6 inches high, then died all of a sudden. My Centennial sprouted up quickly to about 5 feet but has slowed quite a bit. My Cascade grew to about 4 feet but seems to have stalled. I've added some compost hoping that gives them a boost.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Roger on July 07, 2016, 11:49:53 AM
My Hersbrucker have been to the roof and back down about half way now. My cascade are just about to the roof and catching up quickly.
I wouldn't worry about it Jordan. The first year you don't get much anyways. Just take care of them and the next year or two you'll notice a difference.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: ECH on July 07, 2016, 01:36:13 PM
I lost 3 of the 4 I had last year. Nothing grew at all.

When I dug the roots out of the 5 gal bucket, they were huge (after only 2yrs, this would be their third), so took a chance, dug some holes, put in some cow manure and put the root balls in. Not likely to do anything this year, but will see in the spring. If still nothing, will just dig them up.

Was amazed at how big they grew compared to when I planted them 2yrs ago.

Ones I got this year, only the 2 centennial grew. Once I transplanted them out doors, they look like they are shriveling up, thinking maybe it was too much hot sun, too fast. Maybe the rain over this week will revive them.

So out of 2 Chinook, Fuggles, Golding, that I had over the last 2 yrs, and the 2 Centennial and 2 Cascade I got this year, I am left with 1 Golding, and 2 Centennial that actually grew. Not looking good!
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on July 17, 2016, 09:19:59 PM
Most of my cascade are around 16ft after this weekend. Even some of the centennial have started taking off and are around 6 feet. Next year I'll try to find something other than bailer twine as sometimes the loose strands catch and break the bines. The laterals are starting to grow together, especially at the top, so I'll have to see how much pain that causes me at the end of the season. 
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: mikegraham on July 17, 2016, 11:17:39 PM
Nice I killed mine maybe better luck next year for me

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Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Two Wheeler on July 18, 2016, 04:02:08 PM
Man Lee you must have some good soil!
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: nagirroc on July 18, 2016, 08:07:07 PM
And the winner is Centennial. Fifth to sprout and the first to the top, even if it is a little thin.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on July 18, 2016, 10:17:30 PM
Any burrs yet? I just found one plant tonight with them and the others shouldn't be far behind.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: nagirroc on July 18, 2016, 10:38:01 PM
Yes, the four larger plants have them. The two small plants (cascade and columbus) have none. Do each burr become a cone or do some not mature?
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on July 26, 2016, 09:09:40 PM
The cascade have officially hit the top, about 21 feet of twine. Most of the plants are fully burred. Most sites online say to trim the bottom 3-4 feet and I can see why as they don't really produce any burrs.  I trimmed the bottom foot of each plant and left the rest considering it is their first year. ‎I also had some mites on one plant but some soapy water seemed to take care of them. I have been meaning to apply one more application of fertilizer that is high in phosphorus as that seems to be what the burrs need to mature into cones.

The centennial have reached about 8 feet and are starting to sprout laterals, although I'm mainly leaving them alone this year so they can grow their roots.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on August 06, 2016, 06:31:40 PM
The burrs have started to turn into cones. The tops have really filled out as well. The time span between the collage photos is about 20 days.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Two Wheeler on August 08, 2016, 11:53:54 AM
Here's my sad ass plants!

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160808/42d4afc13012c1222861093b85d1c698.jpg)


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Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: ECH on August 09, 2016, 01:40:37 PM
They look better than my even sadder ass plants!!

Here's my sad ass plants!

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160808/42d4afc13012c1222861093b85d1c698.jpg)


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Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: nagirroc on August 13, 2016, 11:45:59 AM
The two best performers in the first year.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on August 23, 2016, 09:17:33 PM
When do people plan on harvesting their cones? Mine are coming along but I won't be able to harvest for a couple weeks.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Roger on August 23, 2016, 10:27:58 PM
Looks good! I harvested my Hersbrucker hops today. But I'm gonna wait a week or two for my cascade.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: nagirroc on August 28, 2016, 09:21:31 AM
First year centennial.... and this guy. Any ideas?

All that centennial is only 5oz dried.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on September 16, 2016, 11:08:46 AM
I had a couple of those guys on my plants as well. I try to look up the names but there are so many and I can only google search bugs for so long before getting the heebie jeebies.

I've been away for two weeks in Newfoundland (the craft beer scene over there is hurting, I almost had to sober up!) so I started harvesting mine last night. I picked about 4 plants and got 68 oz wet. I have them in the top of my garage with a fan on them in my 'herb and flower' dryer.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on September 26, 2016, 09:27:19 AM
My 'flower and herb' drying racks worked great. I hung them in the top of the garage with a stand fan and everything dried within 3 or 4 days.

I ended up with about 240 oz of cascade which dried to about 60 oz and 24 oz of centennial which dried to 6 oz. I left the centennial longer as I wanted to do a wet hop brew but with apple season I didn't have time. They may be too ripe as they have a bit of a garlicy smell so I am thinking of splitting a batch to dry hop with the two varieties. Hopefully I don't end up with a keg of vampire ale :facepalm:.

Before winter I'm going to pile on some fertilizer to build up around the plants and lay down some hay to cover the lawn so there is less competition next year. My pole system worked perfectly so I'm pleased with that. Next year I have to work on more even watering system as the plants that got more water (closer to the start of the soaker hose) seemed to have fewer leaves and larger hops.

Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Roger on September 26, 2016, 07:36:57 PM
Good job man! Nice haul for the first year...
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: robcoombs on September 26, 2016, 08:10:44 PM
Impressive!

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Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on November 04, 2016, 09:33:21 AM
I finally got around to getting my hops ready for winter. When I harvested the cascade I cut the bines off a couple feet off the ground but the centennial I left intact in hopes it would give them a little more juice for next year. I spread hay to help eliminate some of the competition for next year, and I put some extra soil on top of the crowns.

I also had my first brew with my own hops, what a mess. They are the perfect size to clog up everything. Next time I'll try putting them in a hop bag during the boil.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Roger on November 04, 2016, 10:45:30 AM
I only use mine outside the kettle unless they're in a bag but the bag gets very full in a hurry...
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on July 21, 2018, 10:35:23 AM
My Hops are doing well this year. I have one hersbrucker I got from Roger last year that seems to be doing well. The cascade are to the top of the pole with the centennial and hersbrucker not far behind. Some burrs are starting to form so I'm going to switch to a low nitrogen fertilizer. Things seem to be progressing faster than previous years but it has been warm.

I didn't water at all last year and there was a noticeable size difference in the cones so this year I've been a bit more diligent. I also abandoned the hay ground cover and instead use a flame weeder to keep around the base free of weeds.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: feldmann on July 22, 2018, 01:45:12 PM
I've pretty much left mine to fend for themselves unfortunetly but this year they've grown bigger and faster than any year previous. I started getting little burrs a few weeks ago and this is by far the earliest they've appeared for me. Usually I don't start to see any signs of cones until august.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: mikegraham on July 22, 2018, 03:24:38 PM
I managed to kill mine
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: ECH on July 22, 2018, 04:29:41 PM
Mine started out well, growing quickly, but then when the hotter weather hit they seemed to stop growing.

All still look very healthy, but slowed in their growth. 2 centennial might be 2/3 if the way up a 15ft line. Fuggles and Golding about half of the centennial.

Mind you Centennial are only 3yrs old. Golding is probably 2yrs.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: jamie_savoie on July 23, 2018, 08:42:42 AM
Mine pretty much reached their length and are starting to flower

From left to right: Casacade, Nugget and Hersbrucker
(http://i68.tinypic.com/r0t4kn.jpg)

Centennial
(http://i64.tinypic.com/rvvokx.jpg)
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on August 23, 2019, 08:19:33 AM
My hops are doing well this year. I had 12 cascade plants I got from Roger but it was too much so I've been mowing down every other one so I'm down to 6. I think my yield will be about the same as it just means twice as much water and nutrients available. The hersbrucker plant is growing very nicely with some nice big cones.

I've hosed them down a couple times with insecticidal soap because of aphids. Seems to work well.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Roger on August 23, 2019, 12:05:00 PM
Nice! I find my hersbrucker mature faster with fatter cones. But the cascade produces more cones but thin and longer.
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: chrismccull on August 23, 2019, 12:18:46 PM
At what point can you start splitting off rhizomes from an existing plant?  Do they need to be 2 or 3 years old?
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Roger on August 23, 2019, 11:19:51 PM
I think you'd be safe after 3 years once they reach full maturity.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: shazapple on August 28, 2019, 06:06:32 PM
Nice! I find my hersbrucker mature faster with fatter cones. But the cascade produces more cones but thin and longer.
 :cheers:
When do you plan on harvesting your hersbrucker? Mine are starting to feel pretty papery. Last year I harvested at the same time as everything else (early sept) and I think that was too long.
Title: Re: Rhizomes
Post by: Roger on August 29, 2019, 12:00:17 PM
I normally harvest the Hersbrucker about a week before my cascade. Usually the last week of August or first of September.
It seems to work for me.  :cheers: