New Brunswick Craft Brewers Association

Beer Recipes and Food => All Grain => 19 - Strong Ale => Topic started by: Jake on November 01, 2011, 08:41:30 PM

Title: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Jake on November 01, 2011, 08:41:30 PM
7.5lb 2-row
7.5lb Marris Otter
.75lb Crystal 240
.75lb Crystal 150
6oz Chocolate

Mash @ 152, Sparge @ 168

2oz of 4.8% willamette at 60min, 1.75oz of 3.9% tettnanger at 15 and 1.5oz of 5.3% cascade at flameout.


SO5

Going to be my first spunding valve batch, looking to drink around day 12-13
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Richard on November 01, 2011, 09:00:20 PM
What's the OG on that? seems like maybe it'd be a wee bit on the low side for a warmer. Might want to mash higher and up the bill a bit for higher body and more booze (the "warm" in "warmer" so far as I'm concerned :P) respectively.

Kyle has reported some good results using S-04 with spunding - apparently the profile is much less harsh and closer to a desirable English ale signature. On that basis alone (and that 05 might result in too uninteresting a flavour) I'd go with the S-04, but the Ringwood from the library would probably be your best bet.

Just my $0.02 ;)
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Jake on November 01, 2011, 09:08:57 PM
Yea I like the idea of a few more pounds of grain. Maybe up it 4 pounds. What do you think about the ratio of caramel ... is using .75 or a pound of 240 too much?

I've mashed my last 2 batches at 158ish for a fuller body, and never really liked how they turned out (at all). Maybe I'll mash more around 155ish. I see that Picaroons mash temp is surprisingly low on their winter warmer, so was thinking of doing it low because I really like theirs. Believe it or not their mash temp is around 149-150 at the 30 min mark according to their brew blog on the website. I always thought that was pretty full.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Jake on November 01, 2011, 09:13:44 PM
Matter of fact, it appears that all of their beers mash temp are between 147-151 at the 30 minute mark according to their beer blog. I find that interesting because I thought they would have been done higher.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Richard on November 01, 2011, 09:30:03 PM
Yeah it's all down to taste at the end of the day - do what you like, we got no BJCP judges sitting around here right now - that said, 158 is a very high mash temp; I was thinking more like 154.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=467&p=3952 (http://nbcba.org/forum/index.php?topic=467.0&p=3952)

I used 3lbs of crystal in an IPA and it was... very caramel. 3lbs is excessive, but if you like the flavour don't be afraid to push it up there... experiment ftw. Note that I was using 110, rather than 240. 240 would have deeper caramel notes; raisin-ish, almost. I've not used more than a half-lb of 240 in anything so I'm not about to try suggesting anything else on that front ;)

When you say Crystal 60, do you mean 150?

I saw the Pic's brewblog a while back and was a little puzzled by their mash temps too.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Jake on November 01, 2011, 09:36:30 PM
Yea I mean Crystal 150. I'm going .75 240 and .75 150 ... we'll see how it turns out. I'm also going to add a couple oz of chocolate.

The 158 mash temp was more of an experiment than anything. I mashed the batch before that around 148, followed by 158, just to see the difference. I like the lower mash temp alottttt more.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: fakr on November 01, 2011, 10:14:14 PM
surprisingly, after "Best Bitter", Picaroon's winter warmer was really what turned me onto their beer.  Something about it that really got me...full bodied, heavy, strong, with a big punch....a couple of those would literally warm you up good.
I think I'm going to try my hand at a winter warmer once the grain order comes in....Richard, you got a good winter warmer recipe?  lol!  Can't help it...that black IPA is definitely going to be on tap all the time...definite house beer.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Richard on November 01, 2011, 10:23:44 PM
Not yet... if Jake's turns out I will likely use his or a variant :)
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Richard on November 01, 2011, 10:33:15 PM
From http://www.picaroons.ca/journal/journal ... Position=1 (http://www.picaroons.ca/journal/journal/default.asp?PagePosition=1)

Quote

Beer Style: Winter Warmer
Brew Date: Dec. 21/10

Brewer: Esty

Recipe: Grain: (Muntons) Maris Otter pale Malt, Canadian Prairie 2 row, Torrified Wheat, Chocolate Malt, Crystal 240

Hops in boil: Cascade (pellets, A.A. 5.4%), Goldings (pellets, A.A. 4.5%). Tettnang (pellets, A.A. 3.9%)
Hops in hop perc: Willamette (leaf, A.A. 5.6%), Tettnang (leaf, A.A. 4.7%)

Other: Irish moss, Yeast nutrient, gypsum, Ringwood yeast, and our well water. Water is treated with CaCl2 and phosphoric acid to adjust the pH to 4.78.

Mash in @ 8:40, strike temp @ 71 degrees. Mash temp @ 30 min was 64.5 degrees.

Begin sparge 30 minutes later at a temp of 80 degrees.

Copper up at 12:30 and boil at 11:40. Goldings in at start of boil, Tettnang in at 20 minutes and then Cascade at 30 minutes. Demerara sugar added at 40 min. Irish moss added at 50 minutes. Recirculation during the last 10 minutes of the boil, and continued until 10 minutes after burners are shut off.

Willamette/Tettnang leaf-hop juice added to the hop perc before sparging.

Fridge started at 2:40 and finished at 4:40. Clean up begins.

This batch finished fermenting Dec. 23th, was racked on Dec. 28th and filtered Dec. 29th. It was carbonated, kegged and bottled Dec. 29th.
CHEEERS!!
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Jake on November 02, 2011, 08:14:51 AM
Hops in boil, and hops in hop perc ... what the hell is a hop perc? Also, they use goldings for bittering it appears. Of the varieties that we have, what do you think would be a good substitute?

And as noted by that last post, mash temp at 30 mins - 64.5C degrees = 148Fish mash temp ... seems very low for this style
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Dean on November 02, 2011, 09:51:48 AM
Quote from: "Jake"
Hops in boil, and hops in hop perc ... what the hell is a hop perc?


now you've gone and done it ...I bet John's planning to build one as we speak :banana:  :banana:
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Richard on November 02, 2011, 10:41:02 AM
Hop perc(olator) is pretty much a hop-back - something you connect between the kettle and the chiller, stuff with hops, and run the wort through just before it gets cooled and stuck in the fermenter.

Also Fuggles/Willamette would be a suitable substitute for EKG, although they're not the same they are pretty similar.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: pliny on November 02, 2011, 10:42:02 AM
Quote from: "fakr"
Picaroon's winter warmer was really what turned me onto their beer.


FYI, the WW is out in the Fredericton stores now.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Richard on November 02, 2011, 10:42:51 AM
Yeah I was gonna go pick one up to see what they've done with it this year... it has been very variable in the past.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Jake on November 02, 2011, 01:20:27 PM
Alright so for hops: I'm looking at using 1.50z willamette (4.8%) at 60min, 1.5oz (4%) Tettnang @ 10 and 1oz of Cascade (5.3%) @ Flameout

According to beercalculus, this should put me in the low 20's range for IBU's ... Look ok? ... any suggestions with the substitutions or schedule?
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Richard on November 02, 2011, 04:51:00 PM
I reckon get the bittering up a bit there... The "Old Ale" BJCP category (yeah, I went there) is the one for non-spiced winter warmers, and the bottom end for IBUs is about 30. The Pic's one tastes like 30-40 to me.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Jake on November 03, 2011, 08:47:32 AM
Alright, so I have it in the keg with the valve attached. I'll update you on the progress. I ended up using S05 Yeast (accidentally that is. I thought SO4 came in the red pouches, and once I realized, I already had it open and didn't want to waste it).

I used 2oz of 4.8% willamette at 60min, 1.75oz of 3.9% tettnanger at 15 and 1.5oz of 5.3% cascade at flameout.

Sterilized 2 kegs, attached a hose to the IN valve of the full keg, to the OUT valve of the empty keg, and attached the spunding valve to the IN of the empty keg. Hopefully I got his right lol.

There was no yeast activity this morning around the 8hr mark, but hoping to see some after work today. So should I take off the hose and shake it up to get the yeast going? I think John mentioned to do this. But it is OK to shake up throughout fermentation?
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Richard on November 03, 2011, 11:04:06 AM
It's absolutely fine to rouse yeast during fermentation - you may not actually notice the ferment on this, since you can't see through steel (unless you have super-powers you didn't tell us about) and the "noisy" phase of the ferment seems to only take about 8 hours.

And I'm pretty sure you got those hoses right.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Kyle on November 03, 2011, 04:21:56 PM
For a future batch, I'd suggest something like:

Winter Warmer
14# base grain
.5# Crystal 240
.75# Crystal 60
.75# Chocolate
.5# Roasted Barley

Mash @ 155, Sparge @ 168

Batch Size = 4.5 gal

Hops: bitter with cascade, flavour with fuggles, no aroma hops, let that come from the malt.

2 packs of S-04 (or pitch onto yeast cake)

I'd also toss the following into a french press coffee maker, and then pour the tea in at 2 minutes left in the boil:

1.5 cups boiled water
1 tsp cinamon
1/4 tsp ginger
1/4 tsp nutmeg
1/8 tsp ground cloves.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Jake on November 03, 2011, 05:48:59 PM
Yea I was thinking about doing something along your suggestion, maybe next week. Right now it's about 20 hours in and the valve isn't hissing yet. The gauge still hasn't really moved. I quickly flipped the pressure relief valve and it did hiss, so I know there's something going on in there. If nothing by tomorrow morning, then I'll begin to worry
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Richard on November 03, 2011, 06:29:57 PM
RDWHAHB; the spunding-valve stuff is flying blind to a larger degree than normal, just wait it out.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: JohnQ on November 03, 2011, 08:01:36 PM
Hoses are right,

I'd put 10 psi in both of the kegs from your co2 bottle, then attach the spunding valve to the 2nd keg and open it until you start to hear the hiss, slowly bleed it down to 6 psi and turn it so it stops hissing.
When the ferment gets going, you'll hear it hissing.
I also put a gallon or so of water in the second keg and it was like hearing a big airlock burble every time the gas came from keg 1 into keg 2.  Just be careful to not have more pressure in keg 2 than 1 or you could force nonsterile water back into Keg 1.

JQ
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Jake on November 03, 2011, 08:29:17 PM
So here's what I did. I hooked the valve up to an empty keg (to the OUT post), and hooked up the gas at 5-6psi. Closed the valve and opened it to where it started hissing.
Is there any benefit to carbing the kegs to 10 PSI and backing it off? Or can I just let that naturally happen, because I know (theoretically) that my valve is set to 5-6 psi already.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Richard on November 03, 2011, 09:01:42 PM
That's just to dial in the regulator, which is inaccurate as shit (but works). Mine thinks 6PSI (actual) is ~35PSI.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Jake on November 03, 2011, 09:08:57 PM
Hmmm. Well I hooked it up to a keg that was being regulated at 6psi, set the regulator and that's it. I figured that would be accurate. Should I try the that tonight when I get home? or should Ijust leave it be?
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Richard on November 03, 2011, 09:27:21 PM
Use the dial rather than the marks on the regulator - the latter is hopeless. Once you've figured out where the marks relate to you'll be able to dial it in faster next time.

I just tried my first batch from spunding - a 9% IIPA; absolutely fantastic, will bring it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Jake on November 03, 2011, 09:39:21 PM
Yea I was going off the regulator attached to the CO2, which I know is relatively accurate. The regulator on the valve was reading under 5, but I went with the regulator on the CO2, so it should be dialed in I'm hoping.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Richard on November 03, 2011, 09:43:28 PM
Yeah a couple PSI either way won't hurt.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Jake on November 04, 2011, 08:43:55 AM
Woke up this morning and the valve was hissing. I could see some of the foam flowing from the full keg into the empty keg. Pretty exciting stuff.

I just let it self carb this time up to 5psi, but next time I'll maybe carb both kegs equally to 5psi, and perhaps I'll have yeast activity sooner. Do you know if there's any benefit to having both carbed in advance? Obviously you'll have the valve hissing earlier because you have two fully carbed kegs (whereas mine had to fill first), but do you think it has much of an effect on the yeast?
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: JohnQ on November 04, 2011, 11:02:17 AM
I don't think it makes any difference to the yeasties (but I'm perfectly willing to be proven wrong there), but I like knowing that they are working as soon as possible. That, and it ensures that the beer is in a CO2 only environment.
JQ
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Brian_S on November 27, 2011, 03:34:47 PM
Bimppidy, wondering how this turned out as after many warmers so far this season my wallet say I'd better make a batch.  Would you mind posting your final recipe/hop bill?

Is it on the right track as far as a Pics Warmer clone goes?

B
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Richard on November 27, 2011, 03:48:01 PM
Aye - Jake - Can you post the recipe you used for the batch I tried? I'd like to try a variant of it. I gathered from the thread that you eventually used 05, more grain, and I've no idea what mash temp.

Brian_S: the version Jake brought to the meeting was real close, but needed a little less chocolate in it to get closer to cloning the Pic's.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Jake on November 27, 2011, 07:17:46 PM
So I've updated the recipe on pg 1 to what I think I used ... 95% sure. Probably should have documented a little better.

I think the only changes I'd make would be use a bit less chocolate, although I did like how roasty it was, but was notably more roasty than Pic's WW ... but all based on preference. Also, probably up the mash temp to 154 for a little more body.

I'm going to do another 10 gallons of this on my new propane setup next week once I get back from Moncton. I may use another couple pounds of grain to up the alcohol for the Christmas holiday.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Richard on November 28, 2011, 10:02:02 AM
Thanks man, will likely run a batch this week also.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: Richard on June 14, 2012, 03:56:07 PM
wiki.
Title: Re: Winter Warmer?
Post by: JohnQ on June 14, 2012, 06:55:18 PM
Oh yeah, I remember this stuff, very wiki

JQ