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Author Topic: Lactobacillus  (Read 1577 times)

Offline mikegraham

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Lactobacillus
« on: January 22, 2017, 03:07:50 PM »
Looking for Lactobacillus for a kettle sour I want to experiment with if anyone has some the want to sell or trade beer for let me know.

Offline Alain2

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Re: Lactobacillus
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2017, 08:15:54 PM »
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 08:56:14 PM by Alain2 »

Offline Roger

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Re: Lactobacillus
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2017, 09:42:14 PM »
I'd be a bit sceptical about using vitamins. As a last resort you might have some success with a yogurt or grain starter. I used grain last year to make a berliner weiss and I was quite happy with it.
But to be honest I've never heard of using vitamins to make a bacterial starter. I guess it could work...

Offline Alain2

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Re: Lactobacillus
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2017, 07:00:46 AM »
At your own risk.

Taken for milkthefunk website:


Culturing from Probiotics
Some commercial probiotics have been successfully used to produce Lactobacillus cultures (many brands have also failed at providing usable bacteria according to some homebrewers [12]). Probiotics that are classified as "dietary supplements", as opposed to "drugs", may not be as free of contaminates as pure cultures from brewing industry yeast labs [13]. The following probiotics are examples of brands, methods, and results that MTF members have had [14]. Dried forms of Lactobacillus should be stored refrigerated because viability has been seen to decrease as much as 80x when stored at room temperatures [15]. Use only fresh products whenever possible (viability of Lactobacillus drops quickly over time in general), avoid products that have been stored at room temperature (pill and liquid format), and don't bother using expired products [16]. Making a starter is a good way to ensure that the cells are still viable.

See this Sui Generis Blog article on which Probiotics to avoid based on the genera of microbes they contain. Probiotics should have their contents listed plainly on their packaging. Avoid probiotics for animals as they tend to contain organisms that produce off-flavors such as Enterococcus, Clostridium, or Bacillus [17].

MTF "Reverse Kettle Sour"
Devin Bell has experienced getting good sourness by co-pitching probiotics with L. plantarum with yeast, or even after primary fermentation (also known as the "Reverse MTF Sour"). In the case of pitching L. plantarum after fermentation, the beer turned out like a sour saison, where as co-pitched makes for a better Berliner Weisse or Gose style beer. This has also improved head retention in his beers. Using no hops seems to be required in order to get acid production from the L. plantarum probiotics after primary fermentation. See this thread for details.

General Tips and Experiences on Using Probiotics
Tips/experiences of breaking up pills first or letting them dissolve, using starters vs no starter, and number of pills to pitch.
For GoodBelly shots, only 1-2 shots (or 8 oz from a 32 oz carton) for 5 gallons of wort are needed (~20 billion cells for 5 gallons). If using fresh GoodBelly that has been stored cold, don't bother making a starter (a starter will tell you if the bacteria is good, but it will also increase the possibility of contamination). Mango is the preferred flavor because it imparts little flavor to the beer, but others can be used as well [18].
Starters can be avoided for fresh tablet probiotics that have been stored cold, although measuring the pH of a starter will verify that the probiotic pills are still good to use. For Swansons L. plantarum tablets (5 billion cells per tablet), 7-10 tablets for 5 gallons of wort and held at 80-100F for 1-2 days reportedly works well (temperature control and very warm temperatures are not necessary for L. plantarum in general) [19].
Both liquid and pill format probiotics are extremely shelf unstable. They should be stored cold. Liquid probiotics may not be viable after two weeks of cold storage (see expiration date on the package). If liquid or pill format probiotics are stored at room temperature or warmer for any length of time, they may not be viable and a starter is recommended to see if they will acidify wort [20]. Note that cultures from brewing labs have reportedly better shelf lives than probiotics [21].

Offline robcoombs

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Re: Lactobacillus
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2017, 11:11:53 AM »
I've used L.plantarum from capsules with mixed results. I love that the strain doesn't produce butyric acid and it can be fermented/soured at close to room temperature. The problem with the capsules is possible contamination with wild yeast which happened to me last time. I have to recommend reading and researching quite a bit before brewing. American Sour Beers is a great resource. The site mentioned above is good as well.

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Offline robcoombs

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Re: Lactobacillus
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2017, 11:13:16 AM »
Read this guide https://www.fivebladesbrewing.com/lactobacillus-starter-guide/ step by step instructions and Derek is very knowledgeable.

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