New Brunswick Craft Brewers Association
Brewing => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: fakr on September 26, 2011, 03:12:53 PM
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I was talking with a buddy on the weekend about being almost ready to go pure "all grain" with my brewing. Only advice he had was to use 5.2 ph stabilizer or else my mashes will be hit or miss. So I ordered some up.
Anyone else have experience with 5.2 ph stabilizer? I'd like to know exactly how this stuff is able make any ph level end up 5.2....
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I've never used it, but I have pretty good consistency without it.
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What are you using for water Kyle? Fredericton City water? bottled water?
I should go on the moncton city website and request a water analysis....I've been using bottled water all along and maybe I don't need to.
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I listened to a couple of good podcasts on pH from basic brewing radio. The guy mentioned that 5.2 stuff, but suggested that it wasn't all that useful. Essentially it's supposed to be a pH buffer solution (a mixture of both acid and basic compounds which holds pH at a specific level when other acids or bases are added to the solution - up to a specific capacity). There was some (technical) discussion, but the jist of it seemed to be:
1. The grain itself provides a pH buffer for the mash that generally drags it to around the correct pH anyways.
2. Messing with the water pH doesn't really impact the mash pH nearly so much as mash thickness and the specific types of malts selected.
3. If there is too much mash water per grist, the alkalinity you get from municipal water can override the buffer from the malts - hence a thinner mash will increase the pH of the resulting solution past a point.
I really wouldn't worry about it unless your water comes from a real messed up source... Fredericton water is fine, afaik. A quick googling revealed this for you: http://www.moncton.ca/Assets/Residents+ ... Report.pdf (http://www.moncton.ca/Assets/Residents+English/Water+$!26+Sewer/Water+Quality+Annual+Report.pdf)
Which suggests your water is around pH 7-8... for reference; Fredericton's is right about the same. So far as I am aware, the mash pH refers to the pH *after* the grain is added (it's the pH ranges at which the amylases are optimally effective - like the temperature for a and b-amylases, they have different ranges with an overlap).
Original (2 hours!) of discussion is here, but be warned, it's heavy going:
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio (http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio)
If you do sit through the whole thing and get something else out of it that I haven't posted above, please throw it down in this thread so that others can benefit without having to go through the same test of endurance.
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Thanks Richard. I'll check out the link within the next couple of days and post anything above and beyond what you mentioned.
If you're using city water, is there a protocol you go through before adding it to the mash? do you preboil it for a period of time to remove chlorine, or does chlorine even matter in the mash? I know a 60 minute kettle boil would definitely remove chlorine.
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afaik the treatment they use round here (chlorinamine) isn't removed by boiling. You need to add a campden tablet to the water before you boil it (I forget the exact procedure - google will know), to remove chlorinamine. I don't bother, and I don't know anyone else here does either.
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I believe our Fredericton city water is sanitized with Chloramine - its becoming more popular as a municipal water treatment chem. I know that the local wine makers around town all use an under counter water filter (like the rainfresh at Cdn tire) - I use one as well and for wine it does seem to make the ferments go slightly better and it definitely tastes better as compared to drinking from the tap. I don't think it makes a big difference in the end product wine / beer though... I do know that Freddy water does have a tendency to cause ferments to occur at a slightly lower PH than many other places...
Removing chloramine (in the form of tri-halomethanes) is not so easy, boiling wont do it and neither does a simple sit overnight. Some folks treat their water with potassium metabisulfate before using it for a ferment. This is a chemically proven method and for ferments with fewer nutrients this can be a really helpful procedure. For beer though, you'd have to be using some pretty nasty water for it to make much of a difference... City water generally works fine... I think the PH Stabilizer might make a difference in efficiency possibly - be interesting to give it a side by side try... I don't know how many of us measure efficiency though (have to measure volume and SG of wort before the boil to calculate that).
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Sorry Richard - you hit submit before me!
Yes and Camden = Potassium Metabilsulfate
And I agree - I don't bother treating my water either...
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I guess I'll have to experiment with it over the next few months to see if it increases mash efficiency.
I got a pound of it coming if anyone wants to try it for themselves.
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oh, and I checked out those podcasts Richard....yeah, going to be a long listen...too bad it wasn't in text format...I read much faster than I listen...!
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I'd invest in some pH strips to test your mash pH also - remember to cool the sample first. I think that podcast had mentioned colorpHast as being a good brand/type.
The podcasts do tend to draw on a bit... he does slap you with the serious science up front, so don't worry about the whole damn thing being a lecture on free hydrogen ions :P
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I use Fredericton tap water, no off-flavours detected.
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this stuff is not to alter water taste but more to promote perfect mash scenario my water here is about 7.5 PH lvl so to add this 5.2 stabalizer no matter if I add a bunch of specialty grains such as roast barley my mash will stay at 5.2 just makes for a perfect mash conditions every time
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I was talking with my buddy and he said what dave just said...it's to make sure your mash is at a constant 5.2 ph for optimal efficiency and consistency....
So Dave, do you use 5.2 in all your mashes?
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I do now after doing a bunch of reading on the stabalizer every lil bit helps
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I have used 5.2 in quite a few of my mashes over the past 2 years and have come to the conclusion, after not using it, that my beer is
actually better without it. I mean, I still get an actual mash of 5.5 pH which temperature corrected is 5.2 pH. Sometimes I'll adjust with
latic acid when doing a very light coloured brew, but most times just let it go as is. I think my beer is fantstic, but who don't think their beer is great?
I do use part of a campton tablet to treat for chloramines, but a few of my friends don't and I don't taste anything wrong with any of their brews.
There have been a lot of discussion on brewing sites over the past while that have come to the conclussion that 5.2 just isn't worth spending money on and that it don't work for all brews no matter what the company claims.
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fakr: finish up on that podcast. For one thing the optimum is 5.6, not 5.2 - see http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Th ... of_Mashing (http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/The_Theory_of_Mashing) (presumably a limitation of the buffering solution).
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Dave: read the earlier posts... Fredericton is 7.8, Moncton is similar. Don't think you need that 5.2 stuff tbh...
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to late already have it so I will use it till its gone :P
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Well... I guess let us know if there's a measurable difference in efficiency then :P
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I dont have a hydrometer so I have no idea :P
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:frazzled:
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all I know is I usually hit between 75-80% depending on the batch
but new grain mill and mash tun so........ who knows