Spunding Valve epiphany!

[fakr]

I stopped into Princess Auto today when I got back to moncton to pick up some parts for my spunding valve and as I was looking through all the pressure fittings, manifolds, etc, I had an epiphany!

I picked up an a really nice, anodized blue gas manifold and realized that I could put the spunding valve on the end, a gauge next to it, and still have 4 ports left (I'm not bad at math...there are 2 end holes).  Each of the ports I would put a barbed fitting plus a check valve, and I could then pressure ferment 4 kegs at once!  I could put quality disconnects like for air tools off each, run a 3-4 foot line to each and hook up and disconnect up to 4 kegs on the fly....

I am going to build this tomorrow and will post pics.  I'll get a parts list together as well and post the prices.  The manifold was under $10 by the way.

oh, and I thought of using 3-4 foot lines up verticle so the krausen wouldn't be able to climb all the way up to the manifold and into the spunding valve.

Thanks John for the spunding valve!

[Kyle]

very good idea, looking forward to seeing photos

[Richard]

same, although I suspect some kind of sealed wort-catcher will do better than a bunch of hose... I've had full quart-sized blow-off containers fill up and overflow before. Granted the blow-off container contained a few ounces of star-san to start with, but my hunch is that even a hundred feet of extra hose won't contain blow-off after you consider the gas propelling any expelled liquid.

[fakr]

good point Richard.  I imagine the krousen will collect at the lowest point in the system, which is idealy where you want the collector.  What and I suppose there would be quite a bit of it if you have 4 kegs hooked up at once.

Well, how about still using a manifold to hookup multiple fermentations, but have all ports go into one keg with the spunding valve off of it.  it would be the collector vessel.  I think it was John that mentioned this technique for collecting the krousen.

So, hookup up to 4 kegs to the manifold, each line in having a check valve so there is no cross contamination of any kind, and have the manifold output to a keg with a spunding valve.

Here are some of the parts needed.  This is basic with no quick disconnects, but John also bought a bunch of quick disconnects with a shut off valve on one end only.  put the one with the shutoff valve off the manifold so it can be detached and not de pressurize the whole system, while being able to take the corney ball fitting and hose off to clean.  John, if you're reading this, how much are you selling those quick disconnects for?

4 port manifold - $6.99
http://www.princessauto.com/workshop/ai ... r-manifold

Manifold hole plugs - $0.89
http://www.princessauto.com/workshop/ai ... -pipe-plug

Barbed fittings for manifold - $1.99
http://www.princessauto.com/workshop/ai ... -hose-barb

1/4" inline check valves - $2.50
From JohnQ

1/4" quick disconnects with shutoff valve - ??
From JohnQ


Will post pics tomorrow, minus the parts from John.

[JohnQ]

Interesting idea, the only issue I see is that as the SG of each of the attached brews gets closer to the FG, you want to increase the pressure in order to naturally ferment, with 4 beers going at once, the chance that you'll be able to get all of them on the same page is somewhat less than nil.
Alternatively, don't bother with the self carbing, keep the pressure set to about 6 psi to keep the yeast happy and carb later.
Yeah, I'd definitely use an interim Keg in that situation, the Manifold would hook up to the out of the capture keg, and the Spunding Valve wold hook up to the In on the capture keg.

JQ

[fakr]

I guess I should read up on spunding valves a little more before building this contraption.  I was under the impression that 5 psi was all that was needed during the entire process, but it appears not.

Quick question John, after primary fermentation in pretty much complete (lets say 4-5 days), how much pressure would build up in the keg during a 24 hour period?  Where I'm going with this is could you not remove the keg from the spunding setup after the primary fermentation phase, and just attach a gas fitting with a pressure gauge, and use the builtin pressure release valve on a daily basis to make sure the pressure doesn't rise too much?

Can I also assume John that this type of brewing would only be for select recipes not requiring dry hopping?  Or I suppose you could throw hops in the secondary keg before transferring to it?

The main reason I want to try fermenting under pressure is so I can turn out drinkable beer, from start to finish, in as little as 6 days, as opposed to 2 weeks with the conventional method.

[JohnQ]

There seem to be many different approaches, but my love for everything KISS leaves me with 6 psi, then maybe 15 psi, then up to as much as I can get, about 24 psi.

Good question about the pressure build up, and I guess it would be a matter of experimentation.  I don't think that if primary was really done you'd ever have to worry about safety, as the kegs are rated to 130 psi and the release valve in the lid gives out before that.  All you'd be worried about would be slaughtering the yeast, as they will die off very quickly above 24 psi (so I've read on the internet, where everyting you read is true.)  You might be able to get away with just pulling the keg off the spunding  manifold at the appropriate time and checking the pressure regularly, and if you don't care about the potential mass murder of billions of little hard working yeasties, it would likely not be a problem.

I dry hopped that Light Summer Ale that we were tasting in the second Keg after getting the beer off the yeast.

JQ

[Kyle]

I'm going to try just leaving it at 6psi the whole time and then giving it a day at 30psi (in the serving keg) in the fridge, should still be grain to glass in a week.

[fakr]

Not to go in 20 different directions, but I read this morning that some guys are fermenting as usual in their buckets, then transferring to a keg for secondary fermentation with a spunding valve and naturally carbonating.  I suppose if you did this, you could set your spunding valve to a higher psi?

Then I suppose there is the risk that you waited too long to transfer and fermentation is complete...might be worth trying though.at least then you could ferment in buckets and then use the manifold and spunding valve for natural carbonation.

[fakr]

dont laugh but i made a rough inline krausen catcher that isnt leaking.  not pretty but would do the trick. i drilled a hole on opposite sides of a pet bottle able to withstand  at least 30 psi and inserted metal valve stems with tightening nuts.  its holding at 30 psi.

[JohnQ]

Wow, talk about KISS.
looks great,
JQ

[fakr]

pressure

[brew]

This is cool - I think I have a couple of extra valve stems somewhere - I don't have a Pet bottle, perhaps a 2L coke bottle? Or maybe a mason jar with stems in the lid... is that just rubber tubing around the base of the stems?

John - were you saying on Sat. that the Krausen off the top that is collected first is the best yeast for the next batch?

[fakr]

thanks john!  

parts:

1 x 1liter pet bottle from any homebrew shop. $2  could use a 2 leter pop bottle
2x metal valve stems with nut tighteners.  $4 each

$10 total

i think im going to put a small ball valve on either side so i can dump the yeast and reattach.  if i was using the same yeast on all 4 attached kegs i could probably use it in another batch....just not sure about the rubber on the valve stems...

[fakr]

brew i dont think regular rubber valve stems would work but i could be wrong. to make sure i boight 2 metal valve stems with a rubber type washer on the inside and outside of the bottle.  very rugged and can be tightened nice n tight.
i originally thought to use a growler but i wasnt comfortable with pressurizing one up to 20+ psi.  not sure you could fit two on the lid either.