New Brunswick Craft Brewers Association
Uncategorized Boards => General => Topic started by: Dave Savoie on February 15, 2011, 02:39:00 PM
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Virox™ Sanitzer
Virox™ Broad-Spectrum Cleaner No Rinse Sanitizer
A superior Broad-Spectrum Cleaner and Sanitizer, acceptable for use in the food preparation and food processing industries in Canada. Superior Cleaning / Oxidizing Power, Broad-Spectrum Sanitizer, No Rinse Required when Sanitizing on Environmental Surfaces, Canadian Food Inspection Agency, Letter of No Objection, All Chemical Ingredients Listed on EPA Inert or FDA GRAS Listings, Leaves No Active Ingredient Residuals, VOC Free, Not Manufactured Using APE’s/NPE’s, Excellent Health & Safety, Non-Irritating to Eyes or Skin.
Hydrogen Peroxide
Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) is an excellent sanitiser. It is anti-bacterial and anti-microbiological, and is used in many medical and industrial applications as a sanitiser and steriliser. Hydrogen Peroxide breaks down into oxygen and water over a fairly short period of time. It uses the oxidising (burning) effect to kill biological contaminants. It is highly effective because bacteria and fungi cannot mutate and form resistance to it.
Hydrogen Peroxide is particularly good for brewing as (in diluted form) it does not attack plastics or metals, it leaves no residue, and it breaks down quickly into harmless water and oxygen, requiring no rinsing. It can be used as a soaker or spray sanitiser, and it can even be added directly to sanitise brewing water (at a rate of 0.0015% to 0.005%). As a sanitiser it is generally used at concentrations of 0.015% to 0.5%. At 2.0% to 3.0% it is classed as a disinfectant, and is often used to treat cuts (be warned, it stings like hell). 5% is the concentration found in hair bleach. At concentrations over 10% it becomes extremely hazardous to handle, it will bleach and burn skin and cause serious damage to eyes and soft tissue.
Hydrogen Peroxide is the ingredient found in the newer brewing sanitiser products such as BrewShield and Morgan's Sanitize. These products generally contain around 3% H2O2 and suggest dilution to a final working concentration of around 0.1%.
If you are diluting it for storage, it is important to use distilled (or deionised) water as the impurities in tap water will cause it to react, venting oxygen and diminishing the potency of the remaining solution. It is also suggested to add one drop of phosphoric acid for each litre of water, to keep the pH below 4.0 – this helps to prolong the life of the solution. Store it cool and dark, away from sunlight and kiddies, and in a container with a special vented cap (it will be supplied in one), as Hydrogen Peroxide constantly degrades over time, producing oxygen gas and therefore pressure. However, the reaction is normally very slow and the concentrated product (and distilled/deionised solutions) should remain effective for many years if properly stored. The reaction is accelerated greatly by heat, contamination and ultraviolet light.
Solutions for immediate use can be made up with tap water, and the resulting solution should be good for several days, but it depends a lot on the purity of your tap water. For peace of mind make up a new solution each day or two, or always use distilled water and unused portions should keep indefinitely. If it is placed in a spray bottle, keep the trigger head top slightly loose, as the pressure caused will force the liquid out thru the nozzle and empty the container.
If you get bored with brewing, H2O2 can also be used as rocket fuel.
So im going to research this and I believe Gil's parents run a medical supply store
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I can order in Hydrogen Peroxide by the 500mL bottle. Same goes for Iodine if you wanna make your own iodophor like I mentioned in the other thread. 70% Isopropyl Alchohol as well for sterilizing small parts.
Price may not be that great though compared to the big Pharmacies that order it in by the pallet. I can still look into it and compare it to say Walmart online and see if it's worth it.
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Davidsons Food Supply can get Virox
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If you get bored with brewing, H2O2 can also be used as rocket fuel.
I find it hard to believe they'd let Joe Consumer own pure H2O2, but perhaps it's just the nanny state (UK) that I came from warping my perceptions of civil liberty.
Interesting about the sanitising water by a dilute solution... wonder if you can use the 3% stuff (which I use as mouthwash) diluted at a ratio of 1000:1 (0.003% -- between the 0.0015% to 0.005% range to "sanitise brewing water")
My understanding is that the reaction (which would happen completely and absolutely in impure water) produces oxygen and pure water as byproducts, essentially oxidising the crap out of anything it touches.
So I'm wondering if adding a quarter litre of the 3% solution to a wort post-cooling is going to help with infections *AND* add the necessary oxygen I need for a healthy start...
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So I'm wondering if adding a quarter litre of the 3% solution to a wort post-cooling is going to help with infections *AND* add the necessary oxygen I need for a healthy start...
Short answer... hells no.
Longer answer:
- Oxidation (bolting oxygen to other molecules) is not Oxygenation (putting free oxygen into a solution).
- Any residual peroxide will nuke your yeast.
- Any residual peroxide is bad news if imbibed.
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As a sanitiser it is generally used at concentrations of 0.015% to 0.5%.
to get 0.0015% from common 3% H2O2, you'd dilute it into a 2000-1 ratio. 0.5% is 6 to 1.
Thats a huge dilution difference.
Either 3.8 L per 23L of water, or 11.5mL per 23L
Somehow, I don't think either broad range of the spectrum is feasible.
You sure there isn't an extra 0 in the 0.0015%?
Making a 0.015% ratio would be 115ml per 23L, which seems pretty decent.
The current retail price here is 3$ per 500mL that we sell H202. So you'd get about 4-5 keg sanitations per bottle, which would be in the same price range as the Iodophor recipe I mentioned.
Double check on the dilution levels though to make sure.
PS. Walmart sells it for about the same that I can buy it for direct. It's not a huge difference at a per bottle examination, but buying bulk, you'll see a difference in the long run.
I find it hard to believe they'd let Joe Consumer own pure H2O2, but perhaps it's just the nanny state (UK) that I came from warping my perceptions of civil liberty.
Best you'll find over the counter is 3%. No going to the moon here.
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http://www.safecross.com/products_detai ... CAN&ID=542 (http://www.safecross.com/products_details.asp?CCD=CAN&ID=542)
I can get it in 4L 3% form if you're interested.
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here is the Virox MSDS
http://www.virox.com/msds/pdf/ViroxBroa ... -14-08.pdf (http://www.virox.com/msds/pdf/ViroxBroadSpectrumCNRS_Conc_Eng_07-14-08.pdf)
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Gil: Don't add it direct to wort for the reasons given -- and yes I missed a zero out, it's clearly 1000:1 for 3% -> 0.003%.
If there were a way to be sure that the H2O2 had completely reacted out before adding the yeast, it might still be feasible, but I suspect you'd still pick up off-flavours from oxidisation rather than oxygenation.
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Gil: Don't add it direct to wort for the reasons given
I was thinking of leave-in sanitation, not wort addition :)
1000:1 ratio still seems a bit too thin though doesn't it for 3%? Or am I reading that wrong and you mean for pure H2O2or a higher concentration at least...the 0.015% dilution I mentioned is 1000:115, even 100:1 wouldn't be too bad I wouldn't figure.
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Hydrogen Peroxide is the ingredient found in the newer brewing sanitiser products such as BrewShield and Morgan's Sanitize. These products generally contain around 3% H2O2 and suggest dilution to a final working concentration of around 0.1%.
I should read throughly more often.
Diluting 3% H202 into 0.1% is a 30:1 ratio.
This means, for a 500ml spray bottle, you would add 17 mL of H2O2. This would make a no rinse wet contact solution that makes itself inert fast.
a 5 gallon or 23L leave-in solution of the same concentration to sterilize a carboy or keg would be 766mL. Which seems excessive. You can get away with 100ml and still use it as leave in, from the discussion above. The concentration rate would be less, but still within the original discussion's parameters.
So a 4 Gallon jug would last you a bit. Heck, a 500mL container for a few bucks would as well.
Edit:
I'll be taking home a bottle of Peroxide and Isopropyl and giving it a shot when I keg my beer tonight. Tried to keg last night but I had to dig out the driveway :/
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Virox 5 Concentrate is
Concentrate 7% Accelerated Hydrogen Peroxide leaves no active residual that may contribute to the development of resistant strains of microorganisms. Safer for users and occupants. DIN Registered.
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Whats the suggested dilution?
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Cleaning with VIROX 5 at a dilution of 56mL of Virox to 4L of water offers the
added benefit of broad-spectrum activity in a short contact time. The cleaning
procedures in recommendation #2 should also be followed in order to prevent the
inadvertent spread of microorganisms.
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56 mL to 4000ml is a 0.014% ratio
at 7%, the solution is diluted to 0.098%
So roughly the same dilution concentration.
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The guy from Virox contacted me back and suggested this .......
Viper
Broad-Spectrum Cleaner and Sanitizer,
acceptable for use in the food preparation and
food processing industries in Canada
Can be ordered in from Whisco Limited
Telephone: 506-458-9490
roughly $90 for 4 Gallons of concentrate
comes in one gallon jugs and may be able to just order single bottles also
V1: General Sanitizer for
Environmental Surfaces
No Rinse Sanitizing:
Dilute the product at 1:128 (32mL to
4L of water or 1 oz to 1 US Gallon) or
1:64 (64 ml for 4L of water or 2 oz for
1 US Gallon). Apply to cleaned and
rinsed surfaces. Allow the surface to
remain wet for 30 seconds. Let dry.
Ensure surfaces drain adequately.
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Virox™ Sanitzer
Virox™ Broad-Spectrum Cleaner No Rinse Sanitizer
A superior Broad-Spectrum Cleaner and Sanitizer, acceptable for use in the food preparation and food processing industries in Canada. Superior Cleaning / Oxidizing Power, Broad-Spectrum Sanitizer, No Rinse Required when Sanitizing on Environmental Surfaces, Canadian Food Inspection Agency, Letter of No Objection, All Chemical Ingredients Listed on EPA Inert or FDA GRAS Listings, Leaves No Active Ingredient Residuals, VOC Free, Not Manufactured Using APE’s/NPE’s, Excellent Health & Safety, Non-Irritating to Eyes or Skin.
hey everyone , i am also intererested in cutting out the middle man, iv shopped around and realized how expensive these local home brew shops sell sanitizing solutions! I will not support the buying of these expensive starsan and idophor products, these companies are taking advantage of the home brewer and I dont like that. So i will cut out the middle man! anyways im just reading some more about this virox viper product. I came across the MSDS for it and when i went down to the toxic section it says this information.
so the MSDS says that it is corrosive , ill post below the exact words from the MSDS.
"11. TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Acute toxicity: Corrosive
LD50 estimated to be between 2000 - 5000 mg/kg"
this product sounds great but I want to be sure of some things before I buy it. If its corrosive is it still safe to use in wine and beer making? what are some tips for using this stuff ? do i need to wear protective gear like gloves or are those just safety precautions. I would like to use this product in a spray bottle for quickly sanitizing my equipment well I am working on my alcohol projects, is this okay to use in a spray bottle, does it truly work in 30 seconds?!
EDITED
I have just came across additional information about this product and its layed out rather nice on this page, check it out.
http://www.johnsondiversey.com/wcmt/Pro ... t_Spec.pdf (http://www.johnsondiversey.com/wcmt/ProductAttachments/en-US/PIS/Viper_Disinfect_Spec.pdf)
I was going to attach the actual downloaded file here , but I dont see the option for it, hopefully the website address works!
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In summary: screw that, use StarSan.
(the club sells it at cost)
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In summary: screw that, use StarSan.
(the club sells it at cost)
are you talking to me ? why do you say screw that? this product looks good to me.
which club sells starsan at cost? I see most stores selling it for ALOT of money.
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This club; the NBCBA - are you in New Brunswick?
I found Star San particularly difficult to source from a lot of LHBS's; we sourced it direct from Five Star.
Failing that, if it's still the only choice - this stuff should still suffice; the LD50 and spec sheets are a little alarming, but still massively higher than say.. bleach.
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Most sanitisers are corrosive to some degree - very low or high pH comes hand in hand with sanitisers in general.
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This club; the NBCBA - are you in New Brunswick?
I found Star San particularly difficult to source from a lot of LHBS's; we sourced it direct from Five Star.
Failing that, if it's still the only choice - this stuff should still suffice; the LD50 and spec sheets are a little alarming, but still massively higher than say.. bleach.
oh okay, I am actually in Southern Ontario , i just came across this webposting well i was researching a good product to use for my home wine and beer making. This viper product says it can be used to wash vegtables and fruits so I would think its safe for home brewing. I was just wondering if any one had any feedback or tips about it, before i go and purchase gallons of it.
So are you saying I can buy sterilizing solutions from this company NBCBA for cheap?
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It's just a club, and if you're not in NB you're mostly out of luck... however looking at the spec sheets, it appears this is mostly hydrogen peroxide. I've used that stuff as mouthwash at the 3% level, and no problems. So long as you use it to directions, it'll be fine for brewing.
Glad you're getting something from the site, even if you're not local :)
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Hey Shanek17, welcome to the site.
Star San is quite expensive BUT, you can make it go a very long way, and it works very well. 1 oz to 5 GAL of water is pretty good. I used 1 ounce to make 5, 1 gallon water jugs that I use to refill my spray bottles, which will last pretty much forever. 1/4 ounce in 5L of water in my fermentor, then transfer the solution into each vessel I use on that brew day. It's really not that expensive if you use it efficiently.
happy brewing!
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Hey Shanek17, welcome to the site.
Star San is quite expensive BUT, you can make it go a very long way, and it works very well. 1 oz to 5 GAL of water is pretty good. I used 1 ounce to make 5, 1 gallon water jugs that I use to refill my spray bottles, which will last pretty much forever. 1/4 ounce in 5L of water in my fermentor, then transfer the solution into each vessel I use on that brew day. It's really not that expensive if you use it efficiently.
happy brewing!
yea good point. once its diluted i guess it can last for awhile. The problem here is i live in canada and no one seems to have it. i guess i could order it from the states but i dont like the shipping costs.
i would still like to give this canadian viper no rinse sanitizer a try. i actually worked for the company years ago so i dont mind supporting a local canadian company. Im just hoping to get some feedback from others on this site about it.
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Shanek17, welcome to the site.
For stuff like this, it would probably be better for you to register on the SOB forum(southern ontario brewers) as they're more local to you, and would probably know where to buy stuff like this locally.....or get in on a group buy maybe.
http://www.areyouansob.com/ (http://www.areyouansob.com/)
Also, there's another place, MOB...more of a mailing list/homebrew group...lots of info there as well, and they're in Ont. The problem with the maritimes is we find it very hard to get supplies and stuff....in Ont it seems like its much easier...just have to asked the right ppl. Just register at those two places and i'm sure you'll get more info than you need..cheers ;)
here's the MOB site
http://barleyment.wort.ca/ (http://barleyment.wort.ca/)
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Shanek17, welcome to the site.
For stuff like this, it would probably be better for you to register on the SOB forum(southern ontario brewers) as they're more local to you, and would probably know where to buy stuff like this locally.....or get in on a group buy maybe.
http://www.areyouansob.com/ (http://www.areyouansob.com/)
Also, there's another place, MOB...more of a mailing list/homebrew group...lots of info there as well, and they're in Ont. The problem with the maritimes is we find it very hard to get supplies and stuff....in Ont it seems like its much easier...just have to asked the right ppl. Just register at those two places and i'm sure you'll get more info than you need..cheers ;)
here's the MOB site
http://barleyment.wort.ca/ (http://barleyment.wort.ca/)
Perfect! thank you !