New Brunswick Craft Brewers Association

Uncategorized Boards => General => Topic started by: ECH on April 13, 2014, 05:38:28 PM

Title: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: ECH on April 13, 2014, 05:38:28 PM
Considering how long it is taking for the brew pot to chill, even sitting in the snow bank, it is taking forever!
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Two Wheeler on April 13, 2014, 05:48:23 PM
Ah that's too bad! I've heard that a snow bank will melt around the pot, then a layer of air will develop and insulate the pot, making the process slower.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Chris Craig on April 13, 2014, 05:58:13 PM
I brewed a 5 gallon blonde today.  With my whirlpool immersion chiller, it took about 8 minutes to go from 100ºC to 18ºC.  Can't beat it, and they're pretty easy to make.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Two Wheeler on April 13, 2014, 06:01:25 PM
What diameter and length? My 25' 1/4" IC takes a half hour
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Chris Craig on April 13, 2014, 06:03:50 PM
I have a 50' 3/8" ID chiller.  I'm on a well, and my ground water is about 6ºC, so that helps.  Also, I recirculate the wort the whole time...again, that helps.

You could try gently moving the chiller around so you don't get temperature stratification.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Roger on April 13, 2014, 06:14:58 PM
You can also use a sanitised spoon to move the wort around the chiller. I use a pump to whirlpool the wort around the chiller. Works great!
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: HappyHax0r on April 13, 2014, 06:16:35 PM
I'm still a pretty big fan of the plate chiller I got ages ago. I like the pump too but I think I'm going to have to get a bigger one. Probably a chugger. I'll do that once I have my brewshed and brewing stand set up :).
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Jake on April 13, 2014, 06:40:49 PM
Question regarding the whirlpool chiller. Is there any benefit to using more than 50 feet of 3/8 ID coil, or do you think anything more is overkill? What about if your doing 20 or 30 gallons at a time?

Do you think a chugger could whirlpool 20 or 30 gallons of beer? I know you don't get a real strong whirlpool going with the coil in there, but would it still get the job done with this larger volume?
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Chris Craig on April 13, 2014, 06:54:14 PM
The Law of Diminishing Returns is going to come in to play at some point.  My guess is that you'd want to keep the ID of the coil small.  3/8" vs 1/2 ". Maybe 1/4 is better because more of the cold water comes in contact with the surface of the tubing?  To chill as fast as possible, you need to move the coldest possible water through the chiller as fast as possible.  You'll get the best thermal transfer that way. 

To save on water, I'd suggest using 50' 3/8"ID while whirlpooling until you get down to around 120ºF and then using a CFC to finish the job.  You'll keep the aroma from your late hop addition, but it won't take you 100 gallons of water to chill.

I think the chugger should be able to whirlpool well enough for 30 gallons.  You just need the wort to be moving around in there to avoid temperature stratification.

Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: ECH on April 13, 2014, 09:00:55 PM
Only took about 4hrs to cool down. Kept surrounding the pot with snow, still took awhile though.

All put away in the fermentor, now just a waiting game!
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: fakr on April 15, 2014, 06:24:52 PM
I'm a big fan of counter flow \ plate chillers.  They are compact and easy to use.  Counter flow chillers are easy to build yourself with parts from any hardware store, plate chillers are a little pricey, but not that bad.  Both work on the same principal.

I'm likely going to upgrade my home made CFC sometime this summer so I'll post it in the classifieds when it's up for sale.

by the way, it cools 20gal of boiling wort to pitching temp in about 30 minutes.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: ECH on April 16, 2014, 12:04:16 AM
I watched a YT video the other day on a plate chiller. Took water from boiling to about 25C in about 10min. I would have to go back and look, but it was some company in the US that makes diesel parts. But they also make these plate chillers, 30 plate chiller for about $80.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Chris Craig on April 16, 2014, 06:46:26 AM
Dudadiesel.  Do some research before you buy.  The size of the plates is more important than the number of plates...
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Al-Loves-Wine on April 16, 2014, 10:33:05 AM
Yeah I've looked at dudadiesel chillers, he has different grade chillers on his site, low, medium to high quality. I've really been thinking about getting one of the 40 plate chillers that hopdawgs is carrying and pretty sure they are duddielsels. Probably wait till I get my chugger though.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: jeffsmith on April 16, 2014, 11:21:23 AM
I have one of the long, 40 plate DD chillers. It works fantastic. I can take 11 gallons of wort from 200°F to 60°F, into carboys in about 10-15 minutes (using a chugger).
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Al-Loves-Wine on April 16, 2014, 11:31:23 AM
Nice, where did you pick yours up from Jeff? hopdawgs is the short version.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: pliny on April 16, 2014, 02:24:48 PM
Considering how long it is taking for the brew pot to chill, even sitting in the snow bank, it is taking forever!

More important than saving time, chilling quickly is better for the end quality your product. When you flameout, DMS production continues - apparently until you hit 140F.
DMS (dimethyl sulfide), contributes cooked-corn aromas to beer.  Not to mention the risk of contamination is higher when leaving the kettle to chill for hours - even with the cover on.

Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Chris Craig on April 16, 2014, 02:39:13 PM
Check this out: http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php

Pliny's right.  It's far more important to get all wort below 140F as quickly as possible.  If it takes 30 minutes to chill 20 gallons of beer, as fakr says, then a good part of your wort is sitting at a high temp waiting to be chilled and producing DMS.  And, the aroma from the last hop addition degrades.

The video below shows a test where I bring 5 gallons of water from boiling to 120F in 3:25.  That's what you should aim for. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E_6wEn4yWc
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: jeffsmith on April 16, 2014, 08:26:12 PM

Nice, where did you pick yours up from Jeff? hopdawgs is the short version.

Brewhardware.com about a year and a half ago.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Two Wheeler on April 17, 2014, 08:32:52 AM
Thanks for sharing the article Chris... did you build yourself? I assume Fhilo hooked you up at Eddy, what was the cost? And I beleive you said you were using the brew pump from OBK?
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Chris Craig on April 17, 2014, 08:43:15 AM
Fhilo did hook me up.  It's 50' of 1/2" ACR copper.  I got the elbows, garden hose fittings from him too.  I think it was about $55-60 for the materials.  I built one for me, and one for my brother-in-law at the same time.  It took an hour for the 2 of them.

I was using a pump like the one from OBK, but I've since upgraded to a Chugger that I bought from Hopdawgs.ca.  It's a much better pump.  I still have that old pump, but I haven't decided if I'm going to use it for anything or not.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Two Wheeler on April 17, 2014, 09:03:42 AM
I do have an immersion chiller, but it's a fair bit smaller. I might try using a pump to get a whirlpool flowing and see how that helps. Currently I have to manually stir it every 2-3 mins.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Chris Craig on April 17, 2014, 09:31:06 AM
Good plan.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Two Wheeler on April 25, 2014, 09:19:24 PM
OBK said on Facebook that they were having a sale for one hour only tonight, on their plate chiller, starting around 9:30 our time I think

http://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/Counterflow_Wort_Chiller_Homebrew_p/counterflow-chiller.htm
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Roger on April 25, 2014, 09:32:02 PM
Nice! You getting one?
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Chris Craig on April 25, 2014, 09:34:54 PM
I'll split shipping with you @Two Wheeler (http://nbcba.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2007) if you want...
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Al-Loves-Wine on April 25, 2014, 09:39:06 PM
I'd third the shipping with you.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Chris Craig on April 25, 2014, 09:39:38 PM
You want the chiller @Al-Loves-Wine (http://nbcba.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1173) ?
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Al-Loves-Wine on April 25, 2014, 09:40:44 PM
Yup!
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Chris Craig on April 25, 2014, 09:41:40 PM
Ok.  I'm placing the order now.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Al-Loves-Wine on April 25, 2014, 09:42:30 PM
Awesome, let me know what I will owe ya, and I will pay you tomorrow. Thanks Chris!
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Two Wheeler on April 25, 2014, 09:43:38 PM
Yeah I'm in @Chris Craig (http://nbcba.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1174) .
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Chris Craig on April 25, 2014, 09:50:25 PM
I keep running into trouble trying to check out.  One of you guys should try.  I didn't want the chiller, so don't worry about my part of the order.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Two Wheeler on April 25, 2014, 09:53:10 PM
Actually I'm out too. Mine is fine for now and I'd have to buy a pump. Thanks though
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Al-Loves-Wine on April 25, 2014, 09:54:43 PM
Well I guess I have an extra chiller for sale now, if anybody wants it.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Two Wheeler on April 25, 2014, 09:57:46 PM
Sorry al. I'll pay up. It will get used
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Chris Craig on April 25, 2014, 09:58:12 PM
@Two Wheeler (http://nbcba.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2007), I have an extra pump.  $50 with the ball valves and enclosure if you want it.

If not, then @Al-Loves-Wine (http://nbcba.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1173), I'll take the chiller.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Two Wheeler on April 25, 2014, 09:58:57 PM
Deal! Win win win.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Chris Craig on April 25, 2014, 10:05:13 PM
I'll bring the pump with me tomorrow if you're going to be there.  It's going to need a good cleaning (Ask @Roger (http://nbcba.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1911)), but at least you can disassemble it. 

You'll need to get a couple of fittings for it (cam locks or hose barbs) and some silicone tubing.  We can talk about it tomorrow.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Chris Craig on April 25, 2014, 10:12:02 PM
I'm a dirty, dirty liar.  I have the pump, switch box, and 12v adapter, but no fittings.  They were just cheap brass ones anyway.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Two Wheeler on April 25, 2014, 10:25:46 PM
Ha ha. We'll figure it out tomorrow. I'm going to try and get up there as early as I can, likely be 1 or 2 though
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Al-Loves-Wine on April 25, 2014, 10:40:27 PM
Sweet! Pretty good buy for 64 bucks. I would have probably just used both and added short fittings and connected the two somehow...lol
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: ECH on April 26, 2014, 02:28:41 AM
Never fails, you buy something else and the other thing you were looking at comes on special.

I suppose in the end, I never saw the announcement for the special until about 2hrs later, so would have made no difference.

Anyway, got a SS wort chiller for $50 shipped to my PO box in Maine. Picking it up Monday.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41oLQEwaPmL.jpg)
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Chris Craig on April 26, 2014, 06:10:14 AM
For what it's worth, I think this is better anyway.  Stainless...nice :cheers:
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: ECH on April 26, 2014, 08:11:33 PM
Yeah, just got to find myself a pump I can use from a cooler. Garden hose from the well is fine during the summer, but hard to run water when it is -20C in the winter.

Going to check and see what Princess Auto has next time I am in Moncton, circulate ice water from a cooler with it back into the cooler, at least I can then make beer in the garage over the winter.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Chris Craig on April 26, 2014, 08:27:20 PM
Maybe a pond pump?
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: ECH on April 27, 2014, 01:40:19 AM
Maybe a pond pump?

Actually my wife said the same thing. I was thinking something like a fountain pump....but not sure if they are a submersible, or if it gets water from a pick up. Alot of pond pumps and submersible pumps are high GPH, like in the 1000+ of gallons per hour.....don't need anything that strong. Cheapest submersible I could find at PA is a 1/6 hp, and still about 740GPH, and still about $70, however can get fountain pumps from 45 to 130GPH, which I assume would be good enough just to circulate water from a cooler into the chiller and back out, for $20-$40 depending on the size.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: ECH on April 27, 2014, 01:55:09 AM
Even better, found this fountain/aquarium/hydroponic pump on Amazon for about $14

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71n603SW7GL._SL1500_.jpg)

Even a guy on there than commented on how he bought it to use with his wort chiller, circulating ice water from a cooler. Exactly what I had in mind, and can't beat the price!
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Two Wheeler on May 13, 2014, 09:02:39 AM
Ok, for all of you plate chiller folks I'm looking for advice. Outfitting the OBK plate chiller and I'm just wondering if most people will use a single pass from the BK through the chiller into the fermentor, or if you recirculate from the chiller to the BK and do a few passes?

I'm also thinking I could set up my immersion chiller to pre-chill the water before it hits the Plate Chiller.
Title: Re: I can see the value of a wort chiller now
Post by: Chris Craig on May 13, 2014, 09:19:30 AM
The best thing you can do is use the immersion chiller to drop the temp in the kettle to about 140ºF, then run it through the plate chiller.  You'd be able to run the wort through the plate chiller at full speed if it starts off at 140ºF.

Remember, getting the temp of the wort below 140ºF as quickly as possible is important to reduce the DMS in your beer, and for preserving the aroma of the last hop addition.