New Brunswick Craft Brewers Association
Beer Recipes and Food => All Grain => 6 - Light Hybrid Beer => Topic started by: fakr on April 11, 2012, 11:04:30 AM
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Attempt at a light (5%) refreshing ale for the warmer weather ahead. Lighter on the hops than I'm usually used to, but wanted to make an ale that most will enjoy.
12GAL post boil
Grain:
16lbs 2-row malt
3lbs flaked white corn
1.5lb light munich malt
1lb vienna malt
1lb toasted wheat
0.5lb carafoam
Hops:
0.7oz Centennial @ 60min
0.5oz Cascade @ 15min
0.5oz Amarillo @ 10min
0.5oz Palisade @ 5min
Mashin 35L for 60min @ 156F
Batch sparged 3 separate times using 13L each @ 168F
Yeast:
Pitched 3 x s-05
OG = 1.046 (edited this OG to reflect true OG, previous calculation was off)
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my efficiency went up with the 3 batch sparges. I was aiming for the typical 70% that I always get. I ended up a little over 80% but took twice as long to sparge.
So insteady of hitting my initial calculations of 1.050, I ended up hitting 1.058.
The light beer has been upgraded to a pale ale of sorts...
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Strange, just took an SG and it came in at 1.005.....?!?
I would have thought with the higher mash temp of 156F that I would have got a higher final gravity. I'm assuming the flaked corn contributed to the lower FG?
So instead of hitting 5-5.5%, this stuff is sitting at 7%....a strong pale ale??? No idea....
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You take a temp reading at the end of the mash? Sounds like it might have taken a bit of a dive.
The corn shouldn't be any more fermentable than any of the other starches you added, afaik.
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The mash started at 158-159 and dropped down to 156 in the first 10-15 minutes...
each batch sparge was well above 160....though I think the last one was somewhere around 155...I did stir the mash each time, then collect the runnings until it went clear, then transferred to the kettle...
I'll have to take another reading when I get home. My refractometer was out in the cold, and I warmed it up by hand...could have been a bit of water in the pippet or something that dropped it down....not sure...I was in a rush at lunch to check.
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Only other thing I could think of is the duration between first runnings and the wort being raised to ~180F - the mash is still active up to that point.
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well, I'm hoping I had extra water in the pippet or something. I'll do both a refrac and hydro test when I get home tonight.
From mash in to completing the last sparge, I'd say it was a total of 2.5 hours...pretty damn long...and it was really only the last sparge that would have dropped below 160.
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Did you heat the first-runnings and following sparges immediately to halt enzymatic activity? That used to bite me in the ass... Leaving your first-runnings sitting without heating it to above 180F will essentially extend the mash, further simplifying the sugars in the wort (and leading to lower body/FG).
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well, that very well could have been Richard. I did heat my first runnings but kept turning the burner off when foam appeared in the kettle (a bit before boil). I'm sure I did this a half dozen times during the sparge, but I could be wrong.
Thanks for the input!
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Did you heat the first-runnings and following sparges immediately to halt enzymatic activity? That used to bite me in the ass... Leaving your first-runnings sitting without heating it to above 180F will essentially extend the mash, further simplifying the sugars in the wort (and leading to lower body/FG).
I don't heat my first runnings, and I've not had any issues like this. My FG is usually right around where it's supposed to be.
As for the conversion not being finished, well, it was likely finished before he even started sparging...at least close enough that it's wouldn't make that much of a difference. The most likely explanation is that the temperature dropped more than he expected. Although, I just checked an APA recipe I have in beersmith, and the difference in FG between a mash of 156 and one of 147 is 8 points. So, you would have to have lost a LOT of heat...
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I don't think the temp dipped down that low. I typically lose 3-4 degrees during a 60 minute period. My mash stabilized at 156F.
I checked starch conversion at about the 50 minute mark and it was complete. started collecting and recycling first runnings until clear, then started the transfer to the kettle at about the 60 minute mark.
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You should bring me the batch for "scientific" analysis. :drunk:
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I'll definitely bring some to the 28th meeting for a tasting, be it in a bottle or growler.
I'll post later tonight what I find....has to be something obvious....
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I don't heat my first runnings, and I've not had any issues like this. My FG is usually right around where it's supposed to be.
You probably don't take 2.5 hours :P
As for the conversion not being finished, well, it was likely finished before he even started sparging...at least close enough that it's wouldn't make that much of a difference.
I for one don't like the whole idea of conversion being "finished" as a measure of what you'd expect to result in terms of body... Conversion from amylopectin/amylose might be finished, but the ongoing reduction of sugars into simpler and simpler forms isn't done until the enzymes are de-activated; for Alpha-Amylase this isn't until 180F, so all the time you leave your wort sitting below that temperature, the alpha is still working. There are various other stages between amylopectin/amylose and mono/di/tri-saccharides - having fewer of these polysaccharides will contribute to lower body and higher fermentability. Stopping the mash immediately after conversion is complete as per an iodine test will result in a higher body than if you leave it to sit for 2.5 hours longer than your conversion rest...
The most likely explanation is that the temperature dropped more than he expected.
We already covered this :P
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if the FG is actually 1.006 and my reading wasn't diluted with starsan, then I guess I'd have to go with Richard's explanation of the 2.5 hour sparge.
I didn't take a temp reading in the kettle, I just turned the burner on and off over and over to try and keep the wort temp up...I could very well have not hit 180F...
So if this is the case, and if I decided to batch sparge like this again, should I just ensure I maintain a kettle temp of at least 180F throughout the sparge?
And how do I reduce the length of time it takes to batch sparge? maybe it's typically only done twice, where I did it 3?
I usually just keep an inch of water above the grain bed while sparging...
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Sorry Richard...my eyes glazed over a bit reading that :P
fakr: Why did you do a 2.5 hour sparge? Why sparge 3 times?
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for lack of a better excuse, I like experimenting.
The whole point of this experiement was to see what kind of efficiencies I could get above the typical 70% efficienty with fly sparging. I didn't realize it was going to take so damn long though so don't think I'd do it again.
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FWIW, I went from 70% to about 80% by doing a double batch sparge.
1. Collect 1st runnings.
2. Sparge with half the water to bring the grain bed to 168F and let rest for 10 miutes.
3. Mix 'er up right good there, vorlauf, and drain.
4. Repeat step 2 & 3 with the remaining sparge water.
This added 20 minutes to my brew day, but it was worth it.
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cool, that's what I was going for, but did it too many times, and took quite a while to recirculate and clear before draining into the kettle again.
might just try twice next time.
I think next time I'm going to take a conversion reading every 10 minutes after 30 minutes to maybe shave some time off the mash.
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Once the worth hits 180 the alpha denatures fast... five minutes should do it... after that you can leave it to sit.
I say again... conversion test is not evidence that things are done changing...
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I know what you're saying Richard, there is further conversion past what a simple starch conversion shows.
So a question about conversion then...Does conversion have to fully take place in the grain bed?
Where I'm going with this: If I see after 30 minutes that starch conversion has taken place with a simple iodine test, could I not drain the mash tun into the kettle over a 30 minute period and have effectively mashed in for a total of 60 minutes? Or would removing the wort from the grain bed stop some of the remaining conversion?
To add to that, could I not do two 30 minute batch sparges and have mash in to approaching boil in only 2 hours? Am I thinking wishfully?
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WTF, this makes no sense at all....
I'm getting a brix reading of 6 and an FG of 1.010...according to brewheads.com my OG would have been 1.046 not 1.057. that makes no sense at all....
I checked the temp correction chart for my refractometer, and even if the temp was 10C, I would have had a correction of 0.59 on my original OG of 14, which would have been 13.41, making the OG 1.054.
On top of that, my new efficiency would then be only 65.6%....below my usual efficiency.
me no comprendez...
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So many factors. It makes a difference if only one of them is off even a little. Combine a couple of them...who knows. Do you have to calibrate your refractometer? I know mine has automatic temperature correction, and I need to calibrate it using distilled water.
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yeah, I have a calibration screw, but I've always used regular water...
what a pain in the arse...
I'll have to make sure I take an OG reading with a hydro and refrac at pitching to make sure.
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You can get distilled water at a drug store, or a grocery store. It's about a buck for a gallon.
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So with all the miscalculations on Gravity throughout the brewing process, here is the final word:
Beer comes in at 4%.
Very light in color
Mild, clean hop profile
Unable to type hops used. I used a similar hop bill x 6 in another beer and it turned out very bitter and citrusy.
This beer tastes quite "commercial", more on the european side, very similar to a Stella. I've had 2 people mention it tastes like a stella.
Very happy with this creation. I could see it being on tap throughout the summer. I'll bring a growler to the next meeting.
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You making it down for the special meeting tomorrow?
JQ
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doesn't look good, too many trips up to fredericton in 1 month = too much $.
Got family coming down tonight for the weekend to help make an environmental chamber and a batch of brew.
I'll be down for the 28th meeting though.
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Quick update to this thread.
This beer is going to be this summer's "on tap" beer. Very drinkable. 4 or 5 non brewers tried this beer and now want to get into brewing their own.
BrianS said if I had have told him this was a Stella clone, he would have agreed.
I want to lager this recipe for comparison, but the original tastes so much like a lager that I'm not sure it will make much difference.
Very happy with this recipe.
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Nice to see that the additional corn didn't hurt things - I had been pondering using a little more...
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you're going to try the recipe Richard? If so, keep me posted on what changes you make to the recipe and I'll like to try it for comparison.